How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

[brewster]

that's not the argument. not at all. you're deflecting now.

the argument is requirement versus no requirement, and you know it. this version A or B of requirement shit you cooked up is nonsense.

You're arguing with your own straw man then. Below is what I actually said when StA suggested healthcare come out of payroll taxes rather than be provided by the employer.

It really makes no difference whether the money is paid as a business tax or a payroll tax, it's coming from the same source of productivity. It's like the fiction that an employer pays half the SS tax. It's just payroll getting diverted before it's on the employees account.

[SuburbanFarmer]

LMFAO

It definitely makes a difference. Businesses don't care how the government taxes their employee's income. Businesses care about how they get taxed and how they get forced to pay for shit that really has nothing to do with their business. That drives them out.

Remove the mandates for them to purchase health care, remove the double taxation that is corporate taxes, and you give them quite a lot of reasons to stick around the US.

Because obviously, all other factors are equal. In fact, most businesses are built entirely around finding the best tax breaks.

[Speaker to Animals]

How much the government taxes your income makes as little difference to your employer as how you spend the remainder. You're being ridiculous.

Increase payroll taxes to cover Medicare for all. Remove the mandate for employers and free up the market again so people can purchase whatever insurance policy they want. If they can't afford it, or they don't want to spend anything on it, then they get the base model plan: Medicare.

[SuburbanFarmer]

There are lots of jobs that aren't worth paying a "living" wage for. You end up with trash everywhere, broke down stuff, wasteage, and a general disdain for frugality. The solution is Working Welfare, not Minimum Wage.

If you are subsidizing lower wages, what do you get next?

[Martin Hash]

More lower wage jobs.

[brewster]

How much the government taxes your income makes as little difference to your employer as how you spend the remainder. You're being ridiculous.

Increase payroll taxes to cover Medicare for all. Remove the mandate for employers and free up the market again so people can purchase whatever insurance policy they want. If they can't afford it, or they don't want to spend anything on it, then they get the base model plan: Medicare.

Most people can do the arithmetic to tell that the job without insurance better pay more than the job with. Assuming people must have insurance, it's a zero sum game. But it's clear the goal of your "system" isn't to pay the worker enough to buy insurance. You want a race to the bottom.

Back in the 90's when Bill was trying to do healthcare I had a client who howled how providing health insurance would make him uncompetitive. He was in a service industry that couldn't be offshored, it would be a level playing field with all his competitors providing insurance. He refused to comprehend that.

[Martin Hash]

If society wants healthcare, Minimum Wage, Social Security, then society should pay for it, not Ma&Pa business. That's what Income taxes are for.

[Speaker to Animals]

If society wants healthcare, Minimum Wage, Social Security, then society should pay for it, not Ma&Pa business. That's what Income taxes are for.

I don't have a problem with the idea of universal health care. But I do have a problem with strangling the life out of businesses to make it happen. If we want this stuff, then we need to pay for it.

[Martin Hash]

The entire Republican tax narrative is that rich people pay too much taxes & poor people don't pay enough. Regressive taxes, like Payroll Taxes & business taxes subsidize The Rich.

[brewster]

If society wants healthcare, Minimum Wage, Social Security, then society should pay for it, not Ma&Pa business. That's what Income taxes are for.

I don't have a problem with the idea of universal health care. But I do have a problem with strangling the life out of businesses to make it happen. If we want this stuff, then we need to pay for it.

Everyone you would tax makes a living in some way. Whether you tax the business or the individual MAKES NO DIFFERENCE!!! If SS was paid 100% by the business rather than 50% they'd simply pay their employee less, ITS ZERO SUM!! It's only optics whether the business or employee is paying. I'm not even arguing that the business paying is better, since it MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. The way it COULD make a difference to tax the individual is if you funded it not by a payroll tax but by raising the progressive income tax so it's not regressive. While you're at it get rid of the SS cap.