Pedestrian Bridge Collapse, FIU, S Florida

[Ph64]

Yes, for everyone except government.

The only people in the mix who have a direct line of causation leading up to them being put in place by the people of Miami specifically to make sure things like bridges falling on people don't happen, are also the only people in the mix with no responsibility for it.

It's not the engineer's job to stop the traffic. It's not the construction worker's job either. It's the city's job to stop traffic driving under a bridge currently under construction (they failed).

It's the city's job to hire the best firm to build the bridge, instead of just giving it to the family that gives the most to political campaigns (they failed).

When a bridge collapses, it's the city's job to tell the truth about what happened, instead of lying about the bridge being finished when it was an active construction zone. (they failed)

Like I said, they've been working on this damn toll road in El Paso for years because they can only work when the trains aren't running underneath, because the rail companies don't want fucking bridges falling on their freight.

Government fails all the time.

There's a bridge about 30min north of me, about 20years ago they came along and ripped up half the bridge (which was one lane in each direction) and put a traffic light on each end to let traffic alternate over the remaining side... Only after they ripped up half the bridge did someone discover they didn't get all the required environmental, etc, permits.

The bridge was ripped apart for over a decade while they dealt with lawsuits, etc, before they finally got everything smoothed out and fixed it. Meanwhile, of course, one has to wonder just how badly in need of repair it was when the one side was fine for those 10+ years, handling traffic, while the other side was ripped apart to girders and rebar. And why would you rip the bridge apart before knowing you had all the permits in place?

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Is that what we're doing now?

We're pretending that these engineers and contractors just showed up one day and started building a bridge? Government found out about it when they saw it on the news?

Are we pretending people aren't responsible for their shoddy work, the people that hired them are?

There is that personal responsibility ethic.

Under common law, the owner (or occupier, assuming a leasehold) is ultimately liable for whatever unreasonably dangerous or defective structures are present on the property if it causes injury to those who were invited to use them. The independent contractors that designed and installed the bridge, or who supervised that work, are responsible for their own negligence, but the owner cannot escape liability to the invitees by pointing to the latter's conduct. That's why the construction contracts often have indemnification provisions favoring the landowner, and frequently require the owner to be added as an insured to the construction company's primary and excess liability insurance policies. Of course, a municipal government being involved here, the common law rules could be affected by statutory legislation, including various forms of immunity (e.g., discretionary act immunity).

Absolutely, which would require more oversight from property 'owner,' who, in this case, is the state or county. I am not arguing that the county has zero liability, but the solution isn't less government.

[Fife]

What kind of more government *is* the solution, prithee tell?

[Speaker to Animals]

What if we added another level of government that oversees the overseers?

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

What kind of more government *is* the solution, prithee tell?

More oversight.

Government has enough oversight and redundant safety requirements, people get pissed about red tape and inefficiency. Reduce government oversight and funnel tax money to private contractors to ostensibly save money, and people get pissed at the government for design and construction failures.

A failure to regulate campaign contributions seems to have contributed to this particular mess. I know how popular regulations are, though.

[Speaker to Animals]

But who watches the watchers?

[de officiis]

But who watches the watchers?

Us...in theory.

[nmoore63]

Please tell me the answer to people not following the rules is more rules...

We don’t need to spend billions of dollars to take the .00001% down to .000001%.

[Speaker to Animals]

What if we passed laws that made it extra illegal to violate existing laws?

[Ph64]

What if we passed laws that made it extra illegal to violate existing laws?

We're putting you on Double Secret Probation...