Sandy Hook Parents File 1st Argument To Supreme Court

[Ex-California]

What's more important is that we establish a health system that prevents the next Adam Lanza - because there will be more. To research, and find the triggers that created him. He's not some completely random occurrence, that sprang out of nowhere - he was a human being, same as you, who was influenced or damaged in some way. He wasn't pre-destined to become a monster, else none of us have any free will in the first place.

Do you really believe that this is possible? If we research more and have more health care, we can prevent shootings?

Can we prevent evil actions with more research and health care?

I don't think any adult actually believes what you wrote including you.

Exactly.

And truly preventing this would require a lot more forced incarceration. I, for one, think that the mentally ill should be locked up in asylums like in the past but that's inhumane. Or something

[SuburbanFarmer]

What's more important is that we establish a health system that prevents the next Adam Lanza - because there will be more. To research, and find the triggers that created him. He's not some completely random occurrence, that sprang out of nowhere - he was a human being, same as you, who was influenced or damaged in some way. He wasn't pre-destined to become a monster, else none of us have any free will in the first place.

Do you really believe that this is possible? If we research more and have more health care, we can prevent shootings?

Can we prevent evil actions with more research and health care?

I don't think any adult actually believes what you wrote including you.

Exactly.

And truly preventing this would require a lot more forced incarceration. I, for one, think that the mentally ill should be locked up in asylums like in the past but that's inhumane. Or something

I don't know if it's possible, or not.

Consider:
What if there were a set of identifiable triggers or abnormalities that were present in his background or brain chemistry that made him capable of this?
If that were true, then there was very little free choice involved on his part - obviously some, but since practically no other human being could imagine doing that thing by choice, it becomes almost certain that he had something inherently wrong in his mind.
He was clearly a broken machine.

Since we know that other broken machines exist, and we aren't going to take away their ability to act in evil ways, then the only sane course of action is to find out what is broken, and attempt to fix it.

The alternative is to just keep shooting or locking away the broken machines, after they run amok.

[Montegriffo]

If we research more and have more health care, we can prevent shootings?

Can we prevent evil actions with more research and health care?

Try replacing prevent with reduce for an obtainable goal.

[Dand]

Do you really believe that this is possible? If we research more and have more health care, we can prevent shootings?

Can we prevent evil actions with more research and health care?

I don't think any adult actually believes what you wrote including you.

Exactly.

And truly preventing this would require a lot more forced incarceration. I, for one, think that the mentally ill should be locked up in asylums like in the past but that's inhumane. Or something

I don't know if it's possible, or not.

Consider:
What if there were a set of identifiable triggers or abnormalities that were present in his background or brain chemistry that made him capable of this?
If that were true, then there was very little free choice involved on his part - obviously some, but since practically no other human being could imagine doing that thing by choice, it becomes almost certain that he had something inherently wrong in his mind.
He was clearly a broken machine.

Since we know that other broken machines exist, and we aren't going to take away their ability to act in evil ways, then the only sane course of action is to find out what is broken, and attempt to fix it.

The alternative is to just keep shooting or locking away the broken machines, after they run amok.

Almost as edgy as the school shooters themselves


We could reduce the amount of shootings at school by not having schools as gun-free zones. Let teachers carry if they want to.

[Dand]

"Free will doesn't exist" is a conversation ender. It's as valid an argument as "It's all a part of God's plan" and both rely on a un-knowable assertion that existence is predetermined to shut down discussion.

[apeman]

If we research more and have more health care, we can prevent shootings?

Can we prevent evil actions with more research and health care?

Try replacing prevent with reduce for an obtainable goal.

But the premises being debated is:

What's more important is that we establish a health system that prevents the next Adam Lanza - because there will be more. To research, and find the triggers that created him.

[Hastur]

If there is no free will, will we miss it?

[BjornP]

I sometimes wonder why no one is looking into the connection between anti depressants and school shootings but then I remember how much big pfarma spends on advertising.

Guess you're referring to this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alprazola ... _reactions

Not sure to which extent all schoot shooters have been on anti-depressants, and to what extent something like Xanax increases aggression. I don't think one can blame gun violence/deaths to a significant degree on"chemical imbalances". Use of anti-depressants is high in Denmark. We don't get school shootings... or since guns aren't that commonplace, school stabbings or axe murders, either.

I don't think it's the prevalence of guns, either. Switzerland has plenty of guns, and most Greenlandic homes have a rifle to deal with roaming polar bears, but I can't recall the last Swiss or Greenlandic school shooting. I think it simply has to do with an attitude toward a greater tolerance for killing people under certain circumstances. In some US states, you can shoot a guy dead if he simply walks unto your property. In others, you can legally kill someone for simply feeling threatened. So, I think school shootings could be the result of kids feeling (disproportionately, obviously) threatened by others getting too close to their personal space, for example by bullying or mocking them. And you've got to admit: Killing a bully does permanently end the risk of that guy ever bullying the shooter ever again. Of course, school shooters seem to only want to enjoy that feeling for a couple of minutes before blowing their own brains out. Always considered that a serious logical flaw with that whole school shooting thing.

[Montegriffo]

If we research more and have more health care, we can prevent shootings?

Can we prevent evil actions with more research and health care?

Try replacing prevent with reduce for an obtainable goal.

But the premises being debated is:

What's more important is that we establish a health system that prevents the next Adam Lanza - because there will be more. To research, and find the triggers that created him.

But prevent is an absolute doomed to fail and therefore you could argue that it is not worth trying, whereas reduce is much more obtainable and probably more effective than temporary incarceration or drugging up to the eyeballs which have been shown to be ineffective.
Unless you think mental illness is merely a euphemism for evil in which case an exorcism to force out the demons is the only course of action.

[apeman]

But prevent is an absolute doomed to fail and therefore you could argue that it is not worth trying, whereas reduce is much more obtainable and probably more effective than temporary incarceration or drugging up to the eyeballs which have been shown to be ineffective.
Unless you think mental illness is merely a euphemism for evil in which case an exorcism to force out the demons is the only course of action.

You know me better than that (I think)!

I agree that prevent is doomed to fail. I also believe that we do not have an epidemic of violence and shooting, historically, very safe. That being said, the new-ish phenomenon of mass shooting is a serious problem that requires investigation. And what is the easy solution that is trotted out over and over? More mental health care. But what does that look like? How does it work? How would Lanza have been targeted for mental health services? What would these services do?

I think the "mental health" solution is mostly nonsense, it is a feel-good way to say you have a solution to a problem, but in reality that solution isn't though through. I mean, I we gonna have mandatory mental assessments in public school, where the psych's evaluation of each student has meaningful and lasting effects on their lives? How long does the pysch spend with each student to arrive at these conclusions?

How does any of this actually work IRL?