North Korea News

[Zlaxer]

Meh.

Continue the brinkmanship then. It is going swimmingly.

Black markets for goods outside the DPRK's purview are already all over the place. They are where the seeds of resistance to the party are planted. Threatening people with annihilation, on the other hand, sends them into the protective cover of the only thing they know, strengthening and encouraging the regime.

Indeed.
Fifty years of kowtowing, dealing, bribing, and relying on the awesome power of "black markets" to topple the regime has worked splendidly.
Which is why we're where we are today with NK.

Regular world class think tank up in this place.

Shut up you stupid fucking arrogant American - we know better

Singed - The other countries who rely on American military protection.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Meh.

Continue the brinkmanship then. It is going swimmingly.

Black markets for goods outside the DPRK's purview are already all over the place. They are where the seeds of resistance to the party are planted. Threatening people with annihilation, on the other hand, sends them into the protective cover of the only thing they know, strengthening and encouraging the regime.

Indeed.
Fifty years of kowtowing, dealing, bribing, and relying on the awesome power of "black markets" to topple the regime has worked splendidly.
Which is why we're where we are today with NK.

Regular world class think tank up in this place.

What we have had is 50 years of isolating and sanctions. The black markets happened anyway, and have probably done more to undermine the authority of the Kims than every threat, UN resolution, and trade sanction combined.

Trade with NK is not why we are where we are.

[ssu]

But Able Archer was in response to the Soviets encroaching on sub patrols in the Atlantic I thought.

? ? ?

I think Able Archer was an ordinary excersize/war game, actually part of Autumn Forge '83, and that these excersizes happen yearly (I guess).

What's the next US excersize in the PACOM? Likely the heat will be turned up then about this issue. When this media frenzy dies down.

Just like in September the media will be likely talking about Putin's ZAPAD 17 excersize in Belarus. (Not only me.)

[DBTrek]

The black markets happened anyway, and have probably done more to undermine the authority of the Kims than every threat, UN resolution, and trade sanction combined.

Well, far be it from me to question your infallible "probably" internal hunch "evidence".
I mean, maybe we should give it another 50 years. . . if it's probably working and all.

[doc_loliday]

NK is destabilizing, slowly. There are groups that get Koreans out of North Korea and into other countries, read what the Koreans that have escaped are saying. Koreans are reporting that luxury goods are actually playing a very large role. There is a generation of adults that never saw the "good" the government did and so they don't have really any nostalgia for the better times. They consume S. Korean and Hollywood products and media, in all sorts of creative ways, and over the course of years they are reaching the inevitable conclusions. Moreover, they are resisting in very small ways, which undermines the authority of the government. They are very slowly freeing themselves. Best thing to do, imo, is to not become the new face that they hate. We need to sit this one out.

[kybkh]

But Able Archer was in response to the Soviets encroaching on sub patrols in the Atlantic I thought.

? ? ?

I think Able Archer was an ordinary excersize/war game, actually part of Autumn Forge '83, and that these excersizes happen yearly (I guess).

What's the next US excersize in the PACOM? Likely the heat will be turned up then about this issue. When this media frenzy dies down.

Just like in September the media will be likely talking about Putin's ZAPAD 17 excersize in Belarus. (Not only me.)

You may well be right. I have a faint memory of Reagan being provoked to react in an unusual way but haven't confirmed it. Quick wiki check says it included new aspects to prior year exercises but that is all.

[Smitty-48]

But Able Archer was in response to the Soviets encroaching on sub patrols in the Atlantic I thought.

Nope, and it's not like the G-I-UK gap was a hard line, the Soviets encroached constantly, that's what they did, and the British and Americans encroached on them, but Able Archer had nothing to do with that, the thing that spooked the Soviets was that it was so coordinated between the Americans and British, with both governments going into the huddle simultaneously, it looked to the Soviets as if it was cover for actual war preparations, which it wasn't, because that wasn't NATO doctrine, but it was Soviet doctrine, so they were basically projecting their doctrine onto NATO's actions, and they scared themselves silly in the processs.

[DBTrek]

NK is destabilizing, slowly. There are groups that get Koreans out of North Korea and into other countries, read what the Koreans that have escaped are saying. Koreans are reporting that luxury goods are actually playing a very large role. There is a generation of adults that never saw the "good" the government did and so they don't have really any nostalgia for the better times. They consume S. Korean and Hollywood products and media, in all sorts of creative ways, and over the course of years they are reaching the inevitable conclusions. Moreover, they are resisting in very small ways, which undermines the authority of the government. They are very slowly freeing themselves. Best thing to do, imo, is to not become the new face that they hate. We need to sit this one out.

On an infinite timeline all countries are slated for collapse.
/shrug

NK is racing to mass production of nuclear arms while simultaneously trying to outrun its collapse.
Under those circumstances waiting for them to accumulate considerable nuclear firepower before hitting their desperate point of implosion seems like a really bad plan.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

The black markets happened anyway, and have probably done more to undermine the authority of the Kims than every threat, UN resolution, and trade sanction combined.

Well, far be it from me to question your infallible "probably" internal hunch "evidence".
I mean, maybe we should give it another 50 years. . . if it's probably working and all.

Another 50 years of sanctions and threats that have obviously failed to achieve their end sounds better to you?

When NK ex-pats are interviewed about why they decided to flee, they often say it is because of something innocuous like getting a pirated dvd of Titanic or something.

I am recommending trying something different, something that doesn't rely on the shouting abilities of a reality tv star versus the shouting abilities of a developmentally delayed fat kid, both armed with apocalyptic weapons.

[doc_loliday]

On an infinite timeline all countries are slated for collapse.
/shrug

NK is racing to mass production of nuclear arms while simultaneously trying to outrun its collapse.
Under those circumstances waiting for them to accumulate considerable nuclear firepower before hitting their desperate point of implosion seems like a really bad plan.

Let's do it.