Another School Shooting (Wrong Narrative Though)

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

If the company projects revenue growth that never materializes, then they lay off lots of employees. Not only do those employees not get to keep the raise, they have to find another job.

BIG difference there.

I expect there are loads of big differences. I don't recall arguing that there were no meaningful differences between the public and private sectors. But basing budget decisions on projected revenues just ain't one of them.

[Speaker to Animals]

Wait. I have an idea. What if we closed down the government schools and just went to all private schools?

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Wait. I have an idea. What if we closed down the government schools and just went to all private schools?

Depends on how much of the money you spend (and presumably I would spend, since I imagine they would still be subsidized) on your child's education you want to go to some marketing department instead of a math teacher.

[Speaker to Animals]

Wait. I have an idea. What if we closed down the government schools and just went to all private schools?

Depends on how much of the money you spend (and presumably I would spend, since I imagine they would still be subsidized) on your child's education you want to go to some marketing department instead of a math teacher.

In areas where they went to vouchers, it turned out cheaper, and kids were actually receiving an education.

[BjornP]

They don't have the effing money, Bjorn. They. Don't. Have. The. Money.

In the private sector, there would be no raise, because there is no money to pay the raise. Nor would a CEO be inclined to say "Well, sales will probably be up next year, I mean, I project that's probably the case, so give all the workers 5% more."

The fundamental balancing mechanisms of the labor vs. management union system are ABSENT from government agencies. I can only phrase that truth in so many ways.

I'm not buying that "liberty" encompasses government workers ganging up on people who have no representation at the bargaining table and taking their current and future wealth.

Right because the private sector never spends money it doesn't have... It's beside the point, anyway. You keep arguing that your "wallet rights" trump liberty. If government genuinely can't pay its employees more, that just means you can't (or should) pay them more. That's not a valid argument for denying them the right to unionize. It's a valid argument for saying "No" to them.

And bullshit it's absent. Private sector labor negotiations are between employer and employee. So are public sector negotiations. They have an employer and they clearly negotiate with them as it says in the articles. What more representation do you want? Do you throw the same entitled hissy fit when Donald Trump doesn't give you "a seat at the table" when discussing issues in the US NSC? Because, after all, you're a tax payer...it's unfair you don't get a seat at the NSC table!

If you don't buy that liberty also encompasses government workers, you are in effect denying that soldiers, policemen, public medical professionals, etc. are, can be, or should be, treated as fellow citizens equal to yourself. That's quite sad in a country said to be created for, by and of the people. Not particularly surprising given the times. Nothing's quite as triggering as other people's freedoms, isn't that right?

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Wait. I have an idea. What if we closed down the government schools and just went to all private schools?

Depends on how much of the money you spend (and presumably I would spend, since I imagine they would still be subsidized) on your child's education you want to go to some marketing department instead of a math teacher.

In areas where they went to vouchers, it turned out cheaper, and kids were actually receiving an education.

I'll bet. Private schools aren't typically required to provide metrics (one of their advantages, if you ask me), so it is hard to make an apples to apples comparison with public schools that are required to display their warts along with their beauty marks.
It is going to cost the public money either way, and I wouldn't begrudge a private school teacher the right to collective bargaining.

[DBTrek]

The obvious corollary is that we should restrict public sector employees' ability to bargain for wages.

Only a corollary if you’re still, willfully, ignoring the completely different economic pressures that restrict (or fail to restrict) what employees can demand and employers can provide.

I can see this is a tough hurdle for many here to overcome.

I see the Dane came back to defend one-sided public employee collective bargaining as “liberty” again. Because, as ever, Bjorn and his bullshit museum buddies deciding the taxpayer should give them more, then taking more, with nary a party in sight to represent the people who have to pay - is liberty.


Tiresome.

[BjornP]

The obvious corollary is that we should restrict public sector employees' ability to bargain for wages.

On that note:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockout_(industry)

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/201 ... ey-will-be

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

The obvious corollary is that we should restrict public sector employees' ability to bargain for wages.

Only a corollary if you’re still, willfully, ignoring the completely different economic pressures that restrict (or fail to restrict) what employees can demand and employers can provide.

I can see this is a tough hurdle for many here to overcome.

I see the Dane came back to defend one-sided public employee collective bargaining as “liberty” again. Because, as ever, Bjorn and his bullshit museum buddies deciding the taxpayer should give them more, then taking more, with nary a party in sight to represent the people who have to pay - is liberty.


Tiresome.

The last time I followed public sector union negotiations it had to do with public transit, and I was against the wage increase, heartily, since I use public transit, and didn't want to pay any more. I am a selfish and fickle person. /shrug

However, most of the negotiating was done behind closed doors, as are a lot of union negotiations, so I have no idea how hard the management argued to keep the wages down. I do know that it is someone's job to advocate for the tax payer.

[DBTrek]

The only thing obvious here is two forum members can’t grasp the basic differences between a private and public organizations.

Of course, it was obvious when Bjorn went on his rant about “soldiers not having the same rights as you” ... while remaining unaware that soldiers actually don’t have the same rights as me, but rather must conduct themselves in compliance to the UCMJ.

But if you’re making bad analogies throughout the entire thread, may as well go for broke...