"If minimum wage goes up, the price of everything goes up."

[Fife]

If you have time listen to Stapleton on the "Burrito Index"

https://jasonstapleton.com/608-the-burr ... heres-why/

Oh that was a good one... go get it guys.

[jbird4049]

+1 (except for the UBI part; and any coercive profit-sharing as ersatz minimum wage)

Very (small-l) libertarian (gasp).

:goteam:

What's your solution to automation if not ubi?

There are a number of "solutions," I suppose. I'll take the Zen approach of doing nothing over a UBI any old day, just because UBI is easy for me to scrap.

First, what is the legal authority for UBI? Seems like a simply academic discussion unless there is some IRL legitimate way to implement such a program.

Second, the Luddite reflexive position regarding automation is contrary to history and observable human behavior. Automation creates more products, not more leisure time. As much as starry-eyed dreamers have loved to wax poetic about grown ups sitting around singing folk songs all day for centuries, it turns out people would rather have pick-up trucks, cheeseburgers, clean drinking water, computers, iPhones, and medication.

Third, is working a moral burden? (what's wrong with requiring people to work for their supper rather than raiding your fridge?) And is an unconditional income something that able-bodied people morally deserve?

I think the threat of moral injury is the greatest risk. Economically, I don't know that much would change, at the bottom line. But I don't see taking Generation Z and turning it into a nation of video gamers 24/7 is doing them much of a favor. (Also, want to see what REAL income inequality looks like? Just wait until there is a default UBI.)

We already have that. Look at our GINI coefficient(47.0). Having greater income disparity than El Salvador (46.9) and trending towards Mexico (48.3) is not something to aspire to.

[DBTrek]

There are a number of "solutions," I suppose. I'll take the Zen approach of doing nothing over a UBI any old day, just because UBI is easy for me to scrap.

First, what is the legal authority for UBI? Seems like a simply academic discussion unless there is some IRL legitimate way to implement such a program.

Second, the Luddite reflexive position regarding automation is contrary to history and observable human behavior. Automation creates more products, not more leisure time. As much as starry-eyed dreamers have loved to wax poetic about grown ups sitting around singing folk songs all day for centuries, it turns out people would rather have pick-up trucks, cheeseburgers, clean drinking water, computers, iPhones, and medication.

Third, is working a moral burden? (what's wrong with requiring people to work for their supper rather than raiding your fridge?) And is an unconditional income something that able-bodied people morally deserve?

I think the threat of moral injury is the greatest risk. Economically, I don't know that much would change, at the bottom line. But I don't see taking Generation Z and turning it into a nation of video gamers 24/7 is doing them much of a favor. (Also, want to see what REAL income inequality looks like? Just wait until there is a default UBI.)

And fourth . . . (in addition to your excellent points), how is "Free housing and food money for all citizens without restriction" a sustainable platform? It can be overpowered both by a positive birth rate and a positive immigration rate. And really, once one country is paying for everyone's food and housing, who *isn't* going to immigrate there? The entire third world and several parts of the first world are going to hop that gravy train with a quickness, believe that.

[Ph64]

There are a number of "solutions," I suppose. I'll take the Zen approach of doing nothing over a UBI any old day, just because UBI is easy for me to scrap.

First, what is the legal authority for UBI? Seems like a simply academic discussion unless there is some IRL legitimate way to implement such a program.

Second, the Luddite reflexive position regarding automation is contrary to history and observable human behavior. Automation creates more products, not more leisure time. As much as starry-eyed dreamers have loved to wax poetic about grown ups sitting around singing folk songs all day for centuries, it turns out people would rather have pick-up trucks, cheeseburgers, clean drinking water, computers, iPhones, and medication.

Third, is working a moral burden? (what's wrong with requiring people to work for their supper rather than raiding your fridge?) And is an unconditional income something that able-bodied people morally deserve?

I think the threat of moral injury is the greatest risk. Economically, I don't know that much would change, at the bottom line. But I don't see taking Generation Z and turning it into a nation of video gamers 24/7 is doing them much of a favor. (Also, want to see what REAL income inequality looks like? Just wait until there is a default UBI.)

And fourth . . . (in addition to your excellent points), how is "Free housing and food money for all citizens without restriction" a sustainable platform? It can be overpowered both by a positive birth rate and a positive immigration rate. And really, once one country is paying for everyone's food and housing, who *isn't* going to immigrate there? The entire third world and several parts of the first world are going to hop that gravy train with a quickness, believe that.

And one could easily point to Venezuela as what "government freebies" does when suddenly the government's revenue goes into the red.

..and I might add the US is continually in the red (deficit spending). We just happen to be the world's reserve currency so it works... "for now".

[Zlaxer]

And fourth . . . (in addition to your excellent points), how is "Free housing and food money for all citizens without restriction" a sustainable platform? It can be overpowered both by a positive birth rate and a positive immigration rate. And really, once one country is paying for everyone's food and housing, who *isn't* going to immigrate there? The entire third world and several parts of the first world are going to hop that gravy train with a quickness, believe that.

What do you intend to do with the masses who are slowing being rendered economically worthless?

[Zlaxer]

And fourth . . . (in addition to your excellent points), how is "Free housing and food money for all citizens without restriction" a sustainable platform? It can be overpowered both by a positive birth rate and a positive immigration rate. And really, once one country is paying for everyone's food and housing, who *isn't* going to immigrate there? The entire third world and several parts of the first world are going to hop that gravy train with a quickness, believe that.

What do you intend to do with the masses who are slowing being rendered economically worthless? As in the possess no valued skills, and simply lack the mental capacity to become a STEM...


**Stupid double quote strikes again - Grrr....must be a Linux issue...

[Fife]

And fourth . . . (in addition to your excellent points), how is "Free housing and food money for all citizens without restriction" a sustainable platform? It can be overpowered both by a positive birth rate and a positive immigration rate. And really, once one country is paying for everyone's food and housing, who *isn't* going to immigrate there? The entire third world and several parts of the first world are going to hop that gravy train with a quickness, believe that.

What do you intend to do with the masses who are slowing being rendered economically worthless?

Collateral damage of the state's war on poverty. BTW, what's the definition of "economically worthless?"

[Zlaxer]

And fourth . . . (in addition to your excellent points), how is "Free housing and food money for all citizens without restriction" a sustainable platform? It can be overpowered both by a positive birth rate and a positive immigration rate. And really, once one country is paying for everyone's food and housing, who *isn't* going to immigrate there? The entire third world and several parts of the first world are going to hop that gravy train with a quickness, believe that.

What do you intend to do with the masses who are slowing being rendered economically worthless?

Collateral damage of the state's war on poverty. BTW, what's the definition of "economically worthless?"

When one can't generate wages through labor or intellectual prowess...Basically, when a machine takes over your job and you lack the mental capacity to become something useful to society....

Most people will be economically worthless in the next 15 yrs...

[Fife]

What do you intend to do with the masses who are slowing being rendered economically worthless?

Collateral damage of the state's war on poverty. BTW, what's the definition of "economically worthless?"

When one can't generate wages through labor or intellectual prowess...Basically, when a machine takes over your job and you lack the mental capacity to become something useful to society....

Most people will be economically worthless in the next 15 yrs...

*Most* people are going to be <70 IQ? Seriously?

[Zlaxer]

Collateral damage of the state's war on poverty. BTW, what's the definition of "economically worthless?"

When one can't generate wages through labor or intellectual prowess...Basically, when a machine takes over your job and you lack the mental capacity to become something useful to society....

Most people will be economically worthless in the next 15 yrs...

*Most* people are going to be <70 IQ? Seriously?

Lolz....Sometimes you show your age.......

I don't think you fully appreciate where AI technology current is, where it's going.....and most importantly....the rate it will be heading there....

It's OK though - you're in Dixie - I understand