White House official calls for ending Social Security numbers as means of identification

[Speaker to Animals]

Yeah, it was... it's not what it is today... today our credit scores, our gas and electricity, our houses, and almost everything to do with money is connected to our SS. Including our taxes... so to say it is illegal to use it any other way but its original purpose is like saying that rain is wet and the sun is hot. Duh... no shit Sherlock, but that's not what it has become.

Unless Congress amended the law since the 90s, it's been illegal now for about 90 years (since the New Deal) Just because the federal government refuses to enforce the law does not make something legal.

The older cards used to even explicitly state on them it is illegal to use them for identification.

The only lawful use for social security numbers is for social security.

Sign up for gas or electricity without your SS. Tell me how it works.

It's literally written into the Social Security Act that it is unlawful to use these numbers for anything other than Social Security. I realize people are getting away with using it. That's beside the point.


The older version of the card:



Note the statement at the bottom.

[The Conservative]

Unless Congress amended the law since the 90s, it's been illegal now for about 90 years (since the New Deal) Just because the federal government refuses to enforce the law does not make something legal.

The older cards used to even explicitly state on them it is illegal to use them for identification.

The only lawful use for social security numbers is for social security.

Sign up for gas or electricity without your SS. Tell me how it works.

It's literally written into the Social Security Act that it is unlawful to use these numbers for anything other than Social Security. I realize people are getting away with using it. That's beside the point.


The older version of the card:



Note the statement at the bottom.

And? That has to do with the price of beer in Chicago?

http://www.choosingvoluntarysimplicity. ... ty-number/

[SuburbanFarmer]

It's kind of ridiculous to assign a number to every citizen, in the first place. Your name and birthdate should be more than enough.

[Speaker to Animals]

And? That has to do with the price of beer in Chicago?

See below:

It was already illegal.

[Speaker to Animals]

Nor can you fix it by just outlawing the use of social security numbers (which outside of a few areas is already not allowed).

The entire consumer credit industry is predicated upon the notion that there exists a unique identification number associated with every citizen. If you stopped them from using social security numbers, they would just use other numbers they invent themselves, probably algorithmically from a few details about you (full name, date of birth, and location of birth should provide enough different values to generate a unique number for everybody). Then we'd just be right back at square one, and probably worse off because eventually the algorithm used would leak out and people could just guess the fucking thing.

The problem is with the businesses who use the numbers for consumer credit. First of all, I think we should hold the credit reporting agencies 100% financially accountable for every last dime identity theft costs Americans. If you get your identity stolen because of this dumb ass system, then the credit reporting agencies should have to reimburse you for all your losses, including legal fees and your time. They also should have to reimburse the businesses that had merchandise and services stolen from them by that same system. They'd clean their shit right up pretty fast if they actually had to pay for their negative externalities. Most of our economic problems stem from businesses not paying for their negative externalities. Just focus on that.

The system we have only works because the costs are offloaded to innocent victims instead of paid for by the businesses that profit from it. It doesn't matter what identification they use. The problem is them.

[Speaker to Animals]

Another measure we should take is to require creditors to actually prove that a person took out the loan if they want to go to court. Right now, all they have are documents, often signed electronically, and the only proof they have that you signed it is your social security number on the form, which we all know isn't even a secret any longer.

I don't know what should pass for proof, but I am pretty fucking sure nobody can prove you signed something you didn't sign when you are a victim of identity theft. All that was likely done online.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Nor can you fix it by just outlawing the use of social security numbers (which outside of a few areas is already not allowed).

The entire consumer credit industry is predicated upon the notion that there exists a unique identification number associated with every citizen. If you stopped them from using social security numbers, they would just use other numbers they invent themselves, probably algorithmically from a few details about you (full name, date of birth, and location of birth should provide enough different values to generate a unique number for everybody). Then we'd just be right back at square one, and probably worse off because eventually the algorithm used would leak out and people could just guess the fucking thing.

No, that's actually 100x safer than trying to use numbers that are plastered all over the internet, and storing them in databases. A single, proprietary algorithm, used internally by the company, could be protected much more easily.

The problem is with the businesses who use the numbers for consumer credit. First of all, I think we should hold the credit reporting agencies 100% financially accountable for every last dime identity theft costs Americans. If you get your identity stolen because of this dumb ass system, then the credit reporting agencies should have to reimburse you for all your losses, including legal fees and your time. They also should have to reimburse the businesses that had merchandise and services stolen from them by that same system. They'd clean their shit right up pretty fast if they actually had to pay for their negative externalities. Most of our economic problems stem from businesses not paying for their negative externalities. Just focus on that.

The system we have only works because the costs are offloaded to innocent victims instead of paid for by the businesses that profit from it. It doesn't matter what identification they use. The problem is them.

Completely agree.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Another measure we should take is to require creditors to actually prove that a person took out the loan if they want to go to court. Right now, all they have are documents, often signed electronically, and the only proof they have that you signed it is your social security number on the form, which we all know isn't even a secret any longer.

I don't know what should pass for proof, but I am pretty fucking sure nobody can prove you signed something you didn't sign when you are a victim of identity theft. All that was likely done online.

There's no such thing as absolute "proof". Best you could do would be to videotape them signing it, or use fingerprints, but both can still be faked and manipulated.

These are just the first signs of a BIG crack in our system. It will get bigger.

[Okeefenokee]

Another measure we should take is to require creditors to actually prove that a person took out the loan if they want to go to court. Right now, all they have are documents, often signed electronically, and the only proof they have that you signed it is your social security number on the form, which we all know isn't even a secret any longer.

I don't know what should pass for proof, but I am pretty fucking sure nobody can prove you signed something you didn't sign when you are a victim of identity theft. All that was likely done online.

There's no such thing as absolute "proof". Best you could do would be to videotape them signing it, or use fingerprints, but both can still be faked and manipulated.

These are just the first signs of a BIG crack in our system. It will get bigger.

If we go to a reputation based system, you're fucked.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Another measure we should take is to require creditors to actually prove that a person took out the loan if they want to go to court. Right now, all they have are documents, often signed electronically, and the only proof they have that you signed it is your social security number on the form, which we all know isn't even a secret any longer.

I don't know what should pass for proof, but I am pretty fucking sure nobody can prove you signed something you didn't sign when you are a victim of identity theft. All that was likely done online.

There's no such thing as absolute "proof". Best you could do would be to videotape them signing it, or use fingerprints, but both can still be faked and manipulated.

These are just the first signs of a BIG crack in our system. It will get bigger.

If we go to a reputation based system, you're fucked.

Based on MHF posts alone? I’d probably be appointed SecTres.