Doing Math Requires a License in Oregon

[Alexander PhiAlipson]

This is fucking maddening. He's not trying to defraud anybody or pull a fast one over some poor government sap he is presenting facts and instead of disputing that evidence they want to play a challenge coin game of bullshit.

Somehow, somewhere, apparently, he misrepresented himself. For all you and I know, his math may be crap.

[heydaralon]

It wasn't government approved teachers union math. You need a class five license and two forms of ID to practice Euclidean geometry.

[Alexander PhiAlipson]

You're thinking of lobachevskian geometry--there's no such thing as a straight line.

[Ph64]

https://www.nspe.org/resources/licensure/what-pe

A century ago, anyone could work as an engineer without proof of competency. In order to protect the public health, safety, and welfare, the first engineering licensure law was enacted in 1907 in Wyoming. Now every state regulates the practice of engineering to ensure public safety by granting only Professional Engineers (PEs) the authority to sign and seal engineering plans and offer their services to the public.

To use the PE seal, engineers must complete several steps to ensure their competency.

Earn a four-year degree in engineering from an accredited engineering program
Pass the Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) exam
Complete four years of progressive engineering experience under a PE
Pass the Principles and Practice of Engineering (PE) exam

Dan's got a degree in history--but as he constantly reminds anyone who will listen, he is not a historian.
Apparently this guy tried to pass himself off as a Professional Engineer--a definite no-no--that's what the story says, anyway. Math is to engineering as sentences are to writing--he was not fined for "doing math."

Nothing I've read said anything about him trying to "pass himself off as a Professional Engineer".
If I say I have an "electrical engineering background" and it seems to me the light timing is off, or the lights are poorly positioned for visibility, etc, I'm not in any way claiming I'm a "Traffic light engineer" or any such thing, I'm just giving an indication my figures might be worth examining. If I claimed I had a degree in education, even though now I work as a highly paid garbage truck driver, does that make me guilty of "teaching" without a teaching certificate just because I can do high school math?

[jbird4049]

https://www.nspe.org/resources/licensure/what-pe

A century ago, anyone could work as an engineer without proof of competency. In order to protect the public health, safety, and welfare, the first engineering licensure law was enacted in 1907 in Wyoming. Now every state regulates the practice of engineering to ensure public safety by granting only Professional Engineers (PEs) the authority to sign and seal engineering plans and offer their services to the public.

To use the PE seal, engineers must complete several steps to ensure their competency.

Earn a four-year degree in engineering from an accredited engineering program
Pass the Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) exam
Complete four years of progressive engineering experience under a PE
Pass the Principles and Practice of Engineering (PE) exam

Dan's got a degree in history--but as he constantly reminds anyone who will listen, he is not a historian.
Apparently this guy tried to pass himself off as a Professional Engineer--a definite no-no--that's what the story says, anyway. Math is to engineering as sentences are to writing--he was not fined for "doing math."

Nothing I've read said anything about him trying to "pass himself off as a Professional Engineer".
If I say I have an "electrical engineering background" and it seems to me the light timing is off, or the lights are poorly positioned for visibility, etc, I'm not in any way claiming I'm a "Traffic light engineer" or any such thing, I'm just giving an indication my figures might be worth examining. If I claimed I had a degree in education, even though now I work as a highly paid garbage truck driver, does that make me guilty of "teaching" without a teaching certificate just because I can do high school math?

I am actually agreeing with GOPclub here. The fine is BS by that organization protecting its little empire, not an attempt to protect us from bad engineering. I hope they get slapped hard by the Court.

He wasn't paid even though he did the work that showed the lights were timed wrong, did the research to find the cause and solution. He then sent a letter stating what he knew and gave his bona fides so they would be more likely to listen.

He was being a concerned citizen, doing extra work for the community's benefit. We want more of this.

[jbird4049]

With a Scandanavian sounding name like that, I'm surprised that guy didn't immediately file and then overpay for a math license.

He has paid the fine.

[Ex-California]

https://www.nspe.org/resources/licensure/what-pe

A century ago, anyone could work as an engineer without proof of competency. In order to protect the public health, safety, and welfare, the first engineering licensure law was enacted in 1907 in Wyoming. Now every state regulates the practice of engineering to ensure public safety by granting only Professional Engineers (PEs) the authority to sign and seal engineering plans and offer their services to the public.

To use the PE seal, engineers must complete several steps to ensure their competency.

Earn a four-year degree in engineering from an accredited engineering program
Pass the Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) exam
Complete four years of progressive engineering experience under a PE
Pass the Principles and Practice of Engineering (PE) exam

Dan's got a degree in history--but as he constantly reminds anyone who will listen, he is not a historian.
Apparently this guy tried to pass himself off as a Professional Engineer--a definite no-no--that's what the story says, anyway. Math is to engineering as sentences are to writing--he was not fined for "doing math."

I don't have an engineering degree, yet my work title proclaims me an engineer and I get paid for engineering. What does that make me? Am I a professional engineer?

Regardless of semantics, this guy is correct and the State is wrong

[Alexander PhiAlipson]

Nothing I've read said anything about him trying to "pass himself off as a Professional Engineer".

Then you didn't read the article.

[katarn]

The Institute for Justice says the actual fine was for Järlström calling himself a "professional engineer." The thing is, Järlström does have a degree in electrical engineering, though he doesn't carry a state license.

[Alexander PhiAlipson]

I don't have an engineering degree, yet my work title proclaims me an engineer and I get paid for engineering. What does that make me? Am I a professional engineer?

No; take it up with the OSBEELS who made the complaint.

Regardless of semantics, this guy is correct and the State is wrong

What makes you so sure he's correct about anything? It's okay to have a degree in mechanical engineering and call yourself "The Science Guy" on television; it's okay to stand on the corner in a short skirt with track marks on your arms and call yourself a "professional"; but because your wife made a right on red when she should have come to a full stop first, doesn't entitle you to speak before the Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineers and Land Surveyors.
Having a couple umlauts in your name does not make you a genius. He should've paid the original fine instead of appearing on sixty minutes arguing about how unfair these fucking cameras are. He should've paid the stupid little fine instead of listening to his wife who swore it should've still been amber.