Cultural Effects of Loss of Labor

[BjornP]

Can't really speak to wether or not US youth's work ethic is worsening, not being American, but the logic that you can only apply the old Protestant work ethic to hard/manual labor jobs needs abit of explaining. Either your work ethic applies to all work sectors, or you don't have a work ethic. My brother made co-owner of a small, but succesful tech firm last year. It's not hard physical labor, but he didn't get to his post by just sitting around watching YT vids.

If hard manual labor jobs are disappearing, a work ethic is only going to disappear along with it, if all employers from all job sectors start not giving a damn about the level of effort their employees invest in the workplace. I can't really see that happening anywhere in the world.

[Mercury]

Can't really speak to wether or not US youth's work ethic is worsening, not being American, but the logic that you can only apply the old Protestant work ethic to hard/manual labor jobs needs abit of explaining. Either your work ethic applies to all work sectors, or you don't have a work ethic. My brother made co-owner of a small, but succesful tech firm last year. It's not hard physical labor, but he didn't get to his post by just sitting around watching YT vids.

If hard manual labor jobs are disappearing, a work ethic is only going to disappear along with it, if all employers from all job sectors start not giving a damn about the level of effort their employees invest in the workplace. I can't really see that happening anywhere in the world.

Did you watch the video?

The example was a college student who can't handle working at a restaurant. I don't want to speak for the OP, but I think the point was about kids that cant reasonably work at all.

[LVH2]

I never did much manual labor as a kid. I don't think I'd be competent at most ML jobs now. When I change my own tire, I feel like Paul Bunyan.

I don't know about my overall work ethic. It's hard to say. I have worked 70 hours in a week for Lyft, while doing another 10 hours of gambling stuff. And when I had casino jobs, I rarely took sick days and often did overtime. Then I'd play and study poker for much of my free time.

But those things are just sitting on your ass, basically selling your time. I think I'd be fired on my first day from an oil rig or something. I also think I'd be Pyle if I were ever drafted.

Low energy.

Is that a decent work ethic?

Maybe kids who play video games 10 hours a day are priming themselves to do 70 hour weeks writing code.

[MilSpecs]

The 'nature of work' must mean something different to different cohorts of kids. The protestant work ethic is alive and well here. The kids would think it was wildly unrealistic to expect to get a job that only requires 40 hours a week, that doesn't require a degree, near where you're from, that you can keep for years, and pays well with good benefits. I think those are unrealistic expectations. And yet half the country feels entitled to it. Instead of telling kids that they should do manual labor to develop a work ethic, we should be doing everything we can to instill a sense of drive and ambition back in our kids. And that means pushing them to do better than us, not the same as us.

Are they unrealistic?

Jobs like you those you describe are available in the trades.

People stopped working in the trades if they had the aptitude for college because those jobs were very hard to find. There's also the reality that manual labor becomes increasingly difficult as we age. Employers won't keep employees who can't keep up anymore.

In general, the social contract is broken. This appears to be another symptom.

[Mercury]

The 'nature of work' must mean something different to different cohorts of kids. The protestant work ethic is alive and well here. The kids would think it was wildly unrealistic to expect to get a job that only requires 40 hours a week, that doesn't require a degree, near where you're from, that you can keep for years, and pays well with good benefits. I think those are unrealistic expectations. And yet half the country feels entitled to it. Instead of telling kids that they should do manual labor to develop a work ethic, we should be doing everything we can to instill a sense of drive and ambition back in our kids. And that means pushing them to do better than us, not the same as us.

Are they unrealistic?

Jobs like you those you describe are available in the trades.

People stopped working in the trades if they had the aptitude for college because those jobs were very hard to find. There's also the reality that manual labor becomes increasingly difficult as we age. Employers won't keep employees who can't keep up anymore.

In general, the social contract is broken. This appears to be another symptom.

All true. But I don't think the kid in the video ever tried to get a trade job, or would be caught dead doing anything like one even for a summer.

When people have solid work experiences, doing things that are not their heart's desires, they learn how to work. They learn a lot about life, economics, and society. These lessons can be carried on, and enhance career pursuits later in life.

There are consequences for giving up.

[MilSpecs]

When people have solid work experiences, doing things that are not their heart's desires, they learn how to work. They learn a lot about life, economics, and society. These lessons can be carried on, and enhance career pursuits later in life.

There are consequences for giving up.

Agreed. Motivation is important.

[jbird4049]

Are they unrealistic?

Jobs like you those you describe are available in the trades.

People stopped working in the trades if they had the aptitude for college because those jobs were very hard to find. There's also the reality that manual labor becomes increasingly difficult as we age. Employers won't keep employees who can't keep up anymore.

In general, the social contract is broken. This appears to be another symptom.

All true. But I don't think the kid in the video ever tried to get a trade job, or would be caught dead doing anything like one even for a summer.

When people have solid work experiences, doing things that are not their heart's desires, they learn how to work. They learn a lot about life, economics, and society. These lessons can be carried on, and enhance career pursuits later in life.

There are consequences for giving up.

When people have solid work experiences, doing things that are not their heart's desires, they learn how to work. They learn a lot about life, economics, and society. These lessons can be carried on, and enhance career pursuits later in life.

There are consequences for giving up.

Agreed. Motivation is important.

and

There is serious problem of people either living in tents, or in vehicles, in the Bay Area. Most of them had jobs, many have an education, but they can't make enough to pay rent. Granted, by this time next year, rents will be down considerably, but so will employment. But you are going to need $50,000> to afford a car, and two bedroom apartment. That will not give you enough to reasonable expectations of saving money. A $15 an hour which for now more than minimum wages jobs nets just $31,000.

My parents working full time could afford to rent a house with a nice back yard. Yes, the neighborhood was skeezy, and the house was "quaint" . It was no skid row. And we needed food stamps, but doing the kinds of jobs that hungry college students did, a house, a dog, kids, and some "interesting" cars (family and friends were serious shade tree machanics). In Santa Clara Valley, better known as Silicon Valley.

Today, the same kinds of people are living in cars, or tents, and are probably better educated now than any of my working class family was. My family, everyone in their circle, did such jobs, including cannery work, and fruit picking, but they could afford to rent, and very, very occasionally buy, whole houses.

Basically free college, jobs almost for the asking in everything from the trades to any kind of white collar work, companies that hired for life with actual middle class wages, full benefits including pension(It's sounds like a fantasy doesn't it? Fuck, I'm jealous.)

I agree that there is a problem with some not willing to do some kinds of work across across different classes. I get that.

However, we also have virtually the entire elites' children not serving in the military to help fight those undeclared wars. College education of any kind often requiring non-dischargeable life long debts, wages that have not kept up with inflation, (Elites income has always increased faster than inflation) most companies demand slave like devotion but you are disposable, and jobs, in most places, are getting harder to get.

It use to be, the harder you worked, the more successful you were going to be, especially if applied some thought. Even if you failed, it was easier to recover. Nowadays, not so much. Don't get me wrong, it is still often to succeed with hard work, but too often it's just shy of being a lie. Too often, hard work will only put you deeper into that hole in the ground. For too many, what's the point?

[Fife]

It use to be, the harder you worked, the more successful you were going to be, especially if applied some thought. Even if you failed, it was easier to recover. Nowadays, not so much. Don't get me wrong, it is still often to succeed with hard work, but too often it's just shy of being a lie. Too often, hard work will only put you deeper into that hole in the ground. For too many, what's the point?

What, are you wanting to MAGA?

What do you mean by "hard work?" Tell me your definition of "hard work" and I'll share some thoughts. But your definition matters.

[BjornP]

Can't really speak to wether or not US youth's work ethic is worsening, not being American, but the logic that you can only apply the old Protestant work ethic to hard/manual labor jobs needs abit of explaining. Either your work ethic applies to all work sectors, or you don't have a work ethic. My brother made co-owner of a small, but succesful tech firm last year. It's not hard physical labor, but he didn't get to his post by just sitting around watching YT vids.

If hard manual labor jobs are disappearing, a work ethic is only going to disappear along with it, if all employers from all job sectors start not giving a damn about the level of effort their employees invest in the workplace. I can't really see that happening anywhere in the world.

Did you watch the video?

The example was a college student who can't handle working at a restaurant. I don't want to speak for the OP, but I think the point was about kids that cant reasonably work at all.

Did now. Realized I recognized it and I believe that video was shown a few times back on the DC forums sometimes. That kid doesn't just lack a work ethic, he lacks an understanding of what working means. Given that the vid seems to have been shot in the context of a protest, I would be reluctant to assume that this kid is neccesarily representative of the general work ethic of American youth. Those MHF'ers who have kids in, or close to, that age group, or those who own a business themselves have the best experience to comment on wether the Noodles kid represents most US millenials and under.

I am skeptical of that, since if most US kids had the "work ethic" of the noodles kid, you wouldn't have the strongest economy in the world.

Btw, the accent of the noodles kid? That's how Americans on the West Coast, like California talk, right? Is it possible there's a regional-cultural difference between the work ethic of US young people? Like regions where that helicopter parenting and participation awards-thing some of the parents (like Kath) isn't as prevalent as in other parts of the country?

[Speaker to Animals]

I think the Protestant work ethic idea is mostly bullshit. Religion really has little to do with it. It's just a character of a culture at a given time that people work very hard like that.

Mexicans are no Protestants and they work pretty damned hard. Sweden is a Protestant country, and they fake the most sick days.