Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[Otern]

In my view the biggest threat to the European Union are exactly the federalists, these idiots who hallucinate that some bureaucrats in Brussell's can form a new United States of Europe with penstrokes and legal technicalities. They are the real culprits of the demise of the European Union, if the union comes dissolves.

I agree with you there, but possibly not on the need for a Union in the first place. Not sure of your position.
Are you with Otern on the desire to burn it all down?

I don't want to burn absolutely all down. I want cooperation between police forces to combat smuggling, trafficking and terrorism (necessary when borders are reinstated). I also want students to be able to take a semester or two abroad without too much hassle (don't need the EU for that though, as Norwegians can easily study even in Russia or China now). And I want a European electrical grid, so we can sell and buy electricity(with small tariffs). And industrial standardization, so we make nuts and bolts to the same set standards of measurements and tolerances.

Fuck the four "freedoms" though. That's just a sure way to put Europe on fire once again.

[ssu]

I agree with you there, but possibly not on the need for a Union in the first place. Not sure of your position.
Are you with Otern on the desire to burn it all down?

Well, just like Otern above, we do see a role for the Union.

I think the vast majority of Europeans are OK with some parts of the EU and what it has.

You could say I'm for a confederate EU, not a federal EU, the "United States of Europe". That simply won't work. "Speaker to Animals" gave good reasons earlier. But an European Union does give a lot. It has it's limitations, but still it has it's good points.

[Montegriffo]

Agree wholeheartedly with fuck the four freedoms. That's the biggest obstacle to Brexit light and many other good arguments.

[TheOneX]

At some point in the future the EU is likely to evolve into a federation, but at this point it is just too new of a union for it. The cultures and local identities are still tied to their countries, and not Europe as a whole. Other than being close to each other geographically, European countries do not have a whole lot in common. There is no "national myth" to unite them under a European banner. The EU is just too new for a federation to come about willingly by the people. Give it a hundred years, and people will probably be more open to it as by that point there would be so much intermixing people wouldn't have the same ties to their countries as they used to. That is the folly of the federalists, they are acting too soon. They haven't given the EU a chance to meld into a single nation. That kind of change has to happen slowly, kind of like how the US federal government has slowly increased its power over the course of 200 years.

[TheReal_ND]

Austria Yes!

[TheReal_ND]

Berlin (AFP) - German Chancellor Angela Merkel told her party Sunday she will seek re-election next year, a move likely to be welcomed in many capitals as a sign of stability following poll triumphs for Brexit and Donald Trump.

After months of feverish speculation, Merkel announced at a meeting with other leaders of her conservative Christian Democrats (CDU) that she would run for a fourth term, a decision they met with thunderous applause, party sources told AFP.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/merkel-expec ... 58056.html

[TheReal_ND]

Matteo Renzi was roundly defeated in a referendum to change Italy’s constitution, marking a major victory for anti-establishment and rightwing parties and plunging the eurozone’s third largest economy into political chaos.

The prime minister conceded defeat in an emotional speech at his residence, Palazzo Chigi, and said he would submit his resignation to Italy’s president, Sergio Mattarella, on Monday afternoon.

The outcome was a major victory for the populist Five Star Movement, which led opposition to the reform, and the xenophobic Northern League. The parties are not traditional allies but locked arms to take on Renzi in the hope – now realised – of driving him out of office. Weeks ago both party leaders, Beppe Grillo and Matteo Salvini, were exuberant in the face of Donald Trump’s victory in the US, with Grillo claiming it represented a big “fuck you” to the political establishment.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... referendum

[skankhunt42]

Matteo Renzi was roundly defeated in a referendum to change Italy’s constitution, marking a major victory for anti-establishment and rightwing parties and plunging the eurozone’s third largest economy into political chaos.

The prime minister conceded defeat in an emotional speech at his residence, Palazzo Chigi, and said he would submit his resignation to Italy’s president, Sergio Mattarella, on Monday afternoon.

The outcome was a major victory for the populist Five Star Movement, which led opposition to the reform, and the xenophobic Northern League. The parties are not traditional allies but locked arms to take on Renzi in the hope – now realised – of driving him out of office. Weeks ago both party leaders, Beppe Grillo and Matteo Salvini, were exuberant in the face of Donald Trump’s victory in the US, with Grillo claiming it represented a big “fuck you” to the political establishment.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... referendum

[Montegriffo]

You know "literaly Hitler" got beat by the green hippy in Austria don't you Nuke?
No Anschluss (spelling) or annexing the Sudetenland for now.
:Go team:

[TheReal_ND]

Yeah but La Pen is polling ahead.