Revolutions

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SuburbanFarmer
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Re: Revolutions

Post by SuburbanFarmer » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:24 am

DrYouth wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:13 am
SuburbanFarmer wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:03 pm
Well, you seem to be making a case for permanent colonialism. How else does the colonial power withdraw, without wheeling out the machetes?
I'm actually doing no such thing...

I am merely observing that a naïve approach to liberty and "liberation" has repeatedly been catastrophic.
Understanding that those being liberated have often not achieved the vantage point of the liberator is a degree of wisdom beyond the naïve idea that "equality" is an unvarnished good and the expectation that this generosity will be reciprocated in kind...

What I am not advocating is continued oppression where it exists but a wiser approach to the disenfranchised that sets the conditions for their empowerment while not setting up the system for wild destabilizing swings... such as flooding a nation with migrants from the third world... or allowing the wholesale dispossession and murder of an elite class...

The naïve liberal noble is a tragic figure that makes repeat appearances in history... is it any wonder that their naïve cries are met with skepticism and distrust.
Again, what are the conditions for empowerment that should be used, that won’t involve a slaughter of the naive nobles? How does an elite class hand over power without initiating a ‘fight for freedom’?

And would the underclass ever feel that they had earned their freedom without it?
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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Revolutions

Post by Speaker to Animals » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:26 am

You are about to see the end game of liberalism play out in South Africa.

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California
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Re: Revolutions

Post by California » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:26 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:13 pm
Huge mistake. All the greatest trim was had in rescuing high-born ladies.

Image
Jane Seymour was :angry-extinguishflame:
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Re: Revolutions

Post by GloryofGreece » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:28 pm

Getting into that Franco-Prussia war / Paris Commune and its pretty good. Nice night cap to fall asleep to. He's voice isn't as high pitched or loud as Dan can be. Was the 1848 series as good as the French Revolution one? Has he done the Russian Revolution yet?
The good, the true, & the beautiful

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DrYouth
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Re: Revolutions

Post by DrYouth » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:31 am

SuburbanFarmer wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:24 am
Again, what are the conditions for empowerment that should be used, that won’t involve a slaughter of the naive nobles? How does an elite class hand over power without initiating a ‘fight for freedom’?

And would the underclass ever feel that they had earned their freedom without it?
I'm hoping more insight will come from proceeding through the Revolutions podcast...

For the time being from reading Ken Wilbur.... (see my Enlightenment thread)....
I would say the answer lies in understanding at a deep level that inclusive perspectives are not shared by the majority... these are achieved by those in a position to achieve them... usually those with access to education and technology...

So empowering those in the minority should involve granting them access to education and technology... something that never happened in Haiti....
Everyone was simply granted freedom... and then suffered the indignity of having this qualified in a variety of ways.... inconsistently.... and unpersuasively.

In todays world with the new access of education and technology that has occurred we are seeing some pretty fascinating opportunities for widening perspectives on a global scale... unlike any time in history.... that's pretty cool.
Deep down tho, I still thirst to kill you and eat you. Ultra Chimp can't help it.. - Smitty

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Revolutions

Post by Speaker to Animals » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:37 am

Pro tip: the entire world has access to those things. It is not sufficient. There exists genetic and cultural factors in play, and it reeks of vanity and paternalism to imagine yourselves qualified or even morally justified to alter those factors.

Let's appreciate and protect human diversity. Not the fake liberal diversity that is the exact opposite of diversity, but actual diversity. Leave people the fuck alone. Stop trying to destroy and re-engineer nations, races, and societies. For fuck sake.

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DrYouth
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Re: Revolutions

Post by DrYouth » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:09 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:37 am
Pro tip: the entire world has access to those things. It is not sufficient. There exists genetic and cultural factors in play, and it reeks of vanity and paternalism to imagine yourselves qualified or even morally justified to alter those factors.

Let's appreciate and protect human diversity. Not the fake liberal diversity that is the exact opposite of diversity, but actual diversity. Leave people the fuck alone. Stop trying to destroy and re-engineer nations, races, and societies. For fuck sake.
So how exactly am I trying to destroy and re-engineer nations?
I'm just listening to a podcast and commenting on the clusterfucks of history.
Deep down tho, I still thirst to kill you and eat you. Ultra Chimp can't help it.. - Smitty

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Revolutions

Post by Speaker to Animals » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:23 am

So empowering those in the minority should involve granting them access to education and technology... something that never happened in Haiti....
Everyone was simply granted freedom... and then suffered the indignity of having this qualified in a variety of ways.... inconsistently.... and unpersuasively.
Vain, paternalistic call to re-engineer other societies and races. As if you are somehow morally justified and even qualified to do it.

It isn't just "education". Humans are a diverse species with very different social adaptations. Nor is it your place to "uplift" everybody else.

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Re: Revolutions

Post by GloryofGreece » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:23 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:37 am
Pro tip: the entire world has access to those things. It is not sufficient. There exists genetic and cultural factors in play, and it reeks of vanity and paternalism to imagine yourselves qualified or even morally justified to alter those factors.

Let's appreciate and protect human diversity. Not the fake liberal diversity that is the exact opposite of diversity, but actual diversity. Leave people the fuck alone. Stop trying to destroy and re-engineer nations, races, and societies. For fuck sake.
Difference between Globalist/Liberals and much of the other side.
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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Revolutions

Post by Speaker to Animals » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:16 am

The main obstacle in dealing with actual liberals is in just getting them to see it. They are so immersed in that liberal/Enlightenment narrative, they can't extricate themselves far enough removed to see how terrible it all is.

To them the notion that we need to "uplift" all of humanity to be more like us is just some self-evident truth. They don't even question it. When you push back against that, they are often shocked by it. It's like somebody just said pizza tastes like shit to them. But, in this case, the pizza really does taste like shit. They've just been eating all their lives and have no idea.

The Marxists, on the other hand, know they are trying to destroy races and societies, and especially to destroy western civilization. They know exactly what they are fighting for. There is no debate to be had with them in the sense that we need to reach them. We just need to counter their ridiculous arguments in public to turn the tide against this unholy alliance between Marxism and globalism/liberalism.