CS315 - War on a Whim?

[heydaralon]

I don't think there has ever been a precedent for Congress attempting to stop executive military action by cutting funds.

Vietnam, 5 August 1974. Nicaragua, 11 March 1987.

President Ford was not averse to congress taking responsibility for the fall of South Vietnam. President Reagan however, went behind their backs to Ollie North.

I forgot about that Contra mess. Oliver North and Poindexter made for some nice scapegoats

[Smitty-48]

I don't think there has ever been a precedent for Congress attempting to stop executive military action by cutting funds.

Vietnam, 5 August 1974. Nicaragua, 11 March 1987.

President Ford was not averse to congress taking responsibility for the fall of South Vietnam. President Reagan however, went behind their backs to Ollie North.

I forgot about that Contra mess. Oliver North and Poindexter made for some nice scapegoats

Well, it's not like Reagan actually made decisions, he lived in his own little world, Nancy was the real President, Ronnie was just her front, that Iran-Contra shit was all Bill Casey & Co, they put stuff in front of him and said "sign this, it's fer fightin' them Commies" and he did as he was told, at the deposition, when he said "I don't recall", he was telling the truth.

He couldn't remember what he did the day before, or he remembered doing stuff that never happened, the truth is, the Gipper never fully recovered from being shot in 81', was never the same, after Hinckley plugged him. Nancy and Don Regan were running the show, they just propped Ronnie up in front of the teleprompter and told him to read his lines.

[Ph64]

That law would be unconstitutional, the vongress is not in command, they could defund the nuclear weapons programs, but they could not take command and control of them.

What weapons to use, how, where, when, and why, is quite clearly an Executive decision, congress doesn't have to pay for it, but once they do, it's out of their hands, congressional war powers does not extend to weaponeering, and never did.

There is no "except for nuclear weapons" clause in Article II, and since the nuclear deterent must be maintained on a war footing at all times, the congress has already authorized the executive to use nuclear weapons, in the SIOP, or whatever the fuck they call the SIOP these days.

They could just say other than in retaliation nuclear weapons are not to be used offensively without a formal declaration of war... Which might I remind you, regardless of how they have been billed in the news and wording we have not declared since 1942.

We've had "authorizations for the use of military force" and "police actions" and the occasional strike to take out "terrorist training camps" and the like, but no congressionally declared wars, as per the constitution.

"What weapons to use, how, where, when, and why, is quite clearly an Executive decision" - in wartime, yes.

[Hastur]

Do y'all agree with Dan's hopelessness about the political divide?

I keep waffling between taking it seriously and seeing at some freakish phase related to the dawn of social media that will blow over in good time.

I think it's overkill to see it as some kind of sign of national Armaggedon.

A few bloody noses posted to Twitter and Instagram... A few people threatening to defect or secede.

Is this really the death knell of a society?

This requires some pondering.

Isn't this kind of thing cyclical to some extent? It's a fad among the kids. A new cool thing will come along to distract them soon. No way they will be able to keep it up till the next election cycle.

The dangerous part is the extreme divide between the two parallel universes of the adult world. What you really need is a huge economic boom period. The kind that gets a lot of people employed that wouldn't find work under usual circumstances. That seems like a really remote hope at the moment unless we get a global war or something like it.

That leaves us with bread and circuses. Keep pumping out those Marvel movies, docu soaps and rap albums and make sure the price of sugar, starch and fat doesn't get to high. Mac n cheese, Mac n Cheese.

There is no way you can get the liberal coast dwellers to perceive the world the same way the rest of the country does again. The other way around is equally true. The difference between the two worlds has grown to big.

Not that it matters much. The barbarians are at the Gates. White middle class America will soon go away and be replaced by latino culture. Some rich people will hold out for a while in their gated communities, occupying themselves with blaming it all on intolerance.

[Speaker to Animals]

Not that it matters much. The barbarians are at the Gates. White middle class America will soon go away and be replaced by latino culture. Some rich people will hold out for a while in their gated communities, occupying themselves with blaming it all on intolerance.

I don't think they will live in safety. They will have to live in fear from what is left of the white middle class. If this genocide of the American people continues, there will eventually come a time of reckoning, and it will be ugly.

The reason it seems right now like white Americans will just gleefully accept their demographic oblivion is because most of them have been trained to not see it happening in the first place. When that delusion becomes impossible to ignore, shit will get ugly in this country. Bet that. No group of people accepts something like this without a fight.

Just in the past few years it's become overwhelmingly apparent that these nonwhite groups are going to be brutal towards whites when whites are no longer a majority. We've been betrayed and I really wonder if those coastal elites that did this to us won't deserve what likely is coming to them (at their replacements' hands as much as the rest of us).

[Ex-California]

Do y'all agree with Dan's hopelessness about the political divide?

I keep waffling between taking it seriously and seeing at some freakish phase related to the dawn of social media that will blow over in good time.

I think it's overkill to see it as some kind of sign of national Armaggedon.

A few bloody noses posted to Twitter and Instagram... A few people threatening to defect or secede.

Is this really the death knell of a society?

This requires some pondering.

Isn't this kind of thing cyclical to some extent? It's a fad among the kids. A new cool thing will come along to distract them soon. No way they will be able to keep it up till the next election cycle.

The dangerous part is the extreme divide between the two parallel universes of the adult world. What you really need is a huge economic boom period. The kind that gets a lot of people employed that wouldn't find work under usual circumstances. That seems like a really remote hope at the moment unless we get a global war or something like it.

That leaves us with bread and circuses. Keep pumping out those Marvel movies, docu soaps and rap albums and make sure the price of sugar, starch and fat doesn't get to high. Mac n cheese, Mac n Cheese.

There is no way you can get the liberal coast dwellers to perceive the world the same way the rest of the country does again. The other way around is equally true. The difference between the two worlds has grown to big.

Not that it matters much. The barbarians are at the Gates. White middle class America will soon go away and be replaced by latino culture. Some rich people will hold out for a while in their gated communities, occupying themselves with blaming it all on intolerance.

In the West, latino culture has always been here.

[Hastur]

Do y'all agree with Dan's hopelessness about the political divide?

I keep waffling between taking it seriously and seeing at some freakish phase related to the dawn of social media that will blow over in good time.

I think it's overkill to see it as some kind of sign of national Armaggedon.

A few bloody noses posted to Twitter and Instagram... A few people threatening to defect or secede.

Is this really the death knell of a society?

This requires some pondering.

Isn't this kind of thing cyclical to some extent? It's a fad among the kids. A new cool thing will come along to distract them soon. No way they will be able to keep it up till the next election cycle.

The dangerous part is the extreme divide between the two parallel universes of the adult world. What you really need is a huge economic boom period. The kind that gets a lot of people employed that wouldn't find work under usual circumstances. That seems like a really remote hope at the moment unless we get a global war or something like it.

That leaves us with bread and circuses. Keep pumping out those Marvel movies, docu soaps and rap albums and make sure the price of sugar, starch and fat doesn't get to high. Mac n cheese, Mac n Cheese.

There is no way you can get the liberal coast dwellers to perceive the world the same way the rest of the country does again. The other way around is equally true. The difference between the two worlds has grown to big.

Not that it matters much. The barbarians are at the Gates. White middle class America will soon go away and be replaced by latino culture. Some rich people will hold out for a while in their gated communities, occupying themselves with blaming it all on intolerance.

In the West, latino culture has always been here.

Sounds like paradise...
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... ddle-class

[Ex-California]

This requires some pondering.

Isn't this kind of thing cyclical to some extent? It's a fad among the kids. A new cool thing will come along to distract them soon. No way they will be able to keep it up till the next election cycle.

The dangerous part is the extreme divide between the two parallel universes of the adult world. What you really need is a huge economic boom period. The kind that gets a lot of people employed that wouldn't find work under usual circumstances. That seems like a really remote hope at the moment unless we get a global war or something like it.

That leaves us with bread and circuses. Keep pumping out those Marvel movies, docu soaps and rap albums and make sure the price of sugar, starch and fat doesn't get to high. Mac n cheese, Mac n Cheese.

There is no way you can get the liberal coast dwellers to perceive the world the same way the rest of the country does again. The other way around is equally true. The difference between the two worlds has grown to big.

Not that it matters much. The barbarians are at the Gates. White middle class America will soon go away and be replaced by latino culture. Some rich people will hold out for a while in their gated communities, occupying themselves with blaming it all on intolerance.

In the West, latino culture has always been here.

Sounds like paradise...
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... ddle-class

Ok, that outlines the obvious problems of California but has nothing to do with latino culture of the West

[de officiis]

Here's the operative text of HR 669. I included a link to the WPR in case anyone wants to see that.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS AND DECLARATION OF POLICY.

(a) Findings.—Congress finds the following:

(1) The Constitution gives Congress the sole power to declare war.

(2) The framers of the Constitution understood that the monumental decision to go to war, which can result in massive death and the destruction of civilized society, must be made by the representatives of the people and not by a single person.

(3) As stated by section 2(c) of the War Powers Resolution (Public Law 93–148; 50 U.S.C. 1541), “the constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces”.

(4) Nuclear weapons are uniquely powerful weapons that have the capability to instantly kill millions of people, create long-term health and environmental consequences throughout the world, directly undermine global peace, and put the United States at existential risk from retaliatory nuclear strikes.

(5) By any definition of war, a first-use nuclear strike from the United States would constitute a major act of war.

(6) A first-use nuclear strike conducted absent a declaration of war by Congress would violate the Constitution.

(b) Declaration Of Policy.—It is the policy of the United States that no first-use nuclear strike should be conducted absent a declaration of war by Congress.

SEC. 3. PROHIBITION ON CONDUCT OF FIRST-USE NUCLEAR STRIKES.

(a) Prohibition.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the President may not use the Armed Forces of the United States to conduct a first-use nuclear strike unless such strike is conducted pursuant to a declaration of war by Congress that expressly authorizes such strike.

(b) First-Use Nuclear Strike Defined.—In this section, the term “first-use nuclear strike” means an attack using nuclear weapons against an enemy that is conducted without the President determining that the enemy has first launched a nuclear strike against the United States or an ally of the United States.

[GloryofGreece]

Not that it matters much. The barbarians are at the Gates. White middle class America will soon go away and be replaced by latino culture. Some rich people will hold out for a while in their gated communities, occupying themselves with blaming it all on intolerance.

I don't think they will live in safety. They will have to live in fear from what is left of the white middle class. If this genocide of the American people continues, there will eventually come a time of reckoning, and it will be ugly.

The reason it seems right now like white Americans will just gleefully accept their demographic oblivion is because most of them have been trained to not see it happening in the first place. When that delusion becomes impossible to ignore, shit will get ugly in this country. Bet that. No group of people accepts something like this without a fight.

Just in the past few years it's become overwhelmingly apparent that these nonwhite groups are going to be brutal towards whites when whites are no longer a majority. We've been betrayed and I really wonder if those coastal elites that did this to us won't deserve what likely is coming to them (at their replacements' hands as much as the rest of us).

I guess you don't think culture can transcend race. Or in other words you think race is the number 1 identifier no matter what. There has been civilizations and nations that have been multi ethnic of course throughout history as you well know. We for sure have a value and cultural problem in this country but it doesn't have to turn into a race civil war with people butchering everyone else that doesn't look like them. We have the English language at least that will always connect us. Regionalism is real. Race Riots that lead to millions of the deaths in this country is not in our near or mid term future.