"Decline of the West" by Darryl Cooper

[Martin Hash]

I've been listening to these on the sleeper buses. It's damn hard to make a podcast, and Darryl gets points for trying, him & his sidekick, John Ebert, but dammit guys, a little less mental masturbation. Anthropomorphizing society lands you in Oral Illusion territory.

p.s. Darryl, I'm onboard with your ideology but John, hmmmm, not-so-much.

[TheReal_ND]

You do realize they are mainly talking about books right?

[DrYouth]

Oral Illusion territory?

You might want to explain what you mean by that...

But I think I know what you mean Marty...

Quite a bit of Spenglerian jargon and the couple step outside the typical western cause and effect orthodoxy.

The truth is, I was a little uncertain where they were taking us...

But I was going along for the ride... with a healthy dose of skepticism...

I miss these guys.

[Martin Hash]

Oral Illusion territory?

You might want to explain what you mean by that...

An Oral Illusion (think optical illusion) is the intentional misleading of the listener/reader with words. Mostly practiced by Lefties, famous perpetrators are linguists Noam Chomsky & George Lakoff.

Darryl & John use metaphysics, primarily Kant, to describe economics & society. Philosophy, though I love it, is mostly bullshit: Hayek's thoughts on the matter are mostly science.

[DrYouth]

An Oral Illusion (think optical illusion) is the intentional misleading of the listener/reader with words.

By that definition every persuasive statement is an oral illusion. They all consist of words.

Mostly practiced by Lefties, famous perpetrators are linguists Noam Chomsky & George Lakoff.

Because the right never misleads with words.

Darryl & John use metaphysics, primarily Kant, to describe economics & society. Philosophy, though I love it, is mostly bullshit: Hayek's thoughts on the matter are mostly science.

You elevate science beyond it's domain.
Science is great for answering questions of physics and chemistry...
Not so very useful for understanding the unravelling and reinvention of civilizations...
So we must boldy go forward into the realm of symbol and identity... where science fears to tread.
And leave you left-brained thinkers in the dust.

It's a lot of fun you will miss out on... if they ever put out another podcast that is.

[Martin Hash]

R U defending metaphysics?

[LVH2]

Depending on what you mean by metaphysics, I have mixed feelings.

If you mean, "first philosophy," examining the way that we categorize things, I'm not totally sure how you avoid dipping your toe in at the very least.

Are you critiquing Comsky's linguistics of politics? His political writings are very literal and straightforward. I think if you were to criticize them in this vein, you'd say he is TOO literal and engages in a lot of false equivalencies.

[DrYouth]

R U defending metaphysics?

I'm not referring to metaphysics...

I'm simply game to join Cooper and Ebert in an exploration of civilization based on symbol and identity.
Subjects that most science or social science has little to say about.
I am a big fan of Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell... their work informs a lot of my understanding of mental health, spirituality and religion. So it's not a huge leap for me to take the next step to look at civilizations as entities that can have existences (births, middle age, decline, death) similar to other entities... entities that create identities represented by core symbols and narratives.

Of course there are fundamental differences that need to be taken into account.

Haven't read me any Spengler yet, and the podcast hasn't entirely sold me on the formulation by any means.

Still, I was enjoying the ride...

[Martin Hash]

Are you critiquing Comsky's linguistics of politics? His political writings are very literal and straightforward. I think if you were to criticize them in this vein, you'd say he is TOO literal and engages in a lot of false equivalencies.

The very essence of Oral Illusions.

[Martin Hash]

...

I agree with all that.

p.s. Joseph Campbell was an anthropomorphizing terror, and guilty of way too much post hoc narrative, but I watched his 1988 Bill Moyers interviews, "The Power of Myth," with eager anticipation during my more sophomoric days.