apeman wrote:Smitty-48 wrote:No it's not, that sums it up perfectly, I can't stand naive idealistic Orwell, just another run o' the mill faux bolshie, now 1984, that's the Orwell I like, the one who came to grips with where socialism really ends, after he had seen for himself how the Lefties really were down in Spain; Big Brother Stalin pulling their strings from Moscow. Bitter and disillusioned, that's how I like my Orwell.
1.) the first part re: coal miners has cemented the fact that I will never complain about my stressful yet cushy/$$$ job again. The context is valuable to me.
2.) Orwell really savages socialists in the middle part of the book, and what was useful to me is to see that NOTHING EVER CHANGES, the criticisms could have been written today.
3.) I'm trying to challenge my priors (i.e. I know completely understand the objections to libertarianism and am sooooo much less libertarian), and I respect Orwell, and to read the book in good faith and still find his conclusion supporting socialism unconvincing matters, doesn't it? Isn't that what separates me from, say, GCF, who will never read opposition material in good faith?
1.) You're an American, an American can complain about whatever said American feels like complaining about at given moment for any reason, and there's no cause for an American to feel guilty about it neither, and there's no requirement to be working at the coal face in the north of England in the Great Depression for an American to reach the point of complaining, in fact, Americans complaining solves more problems than any other thing on earth, Americans complaining, is a service to humanity, because that's market forces in action, and dealing with American complaints, is the driving force of consumerism, which is the very reason you don't have to work at the coal face anymore.
2) Orwell only savages the commies for not being commie enough, no points for that, Orwell, just count yourself lucky that the complaining Americans decided that they had a complaint about your buddy Stalin and thus kept Big Brother at bay for 45 years with the hydrogen bomb, but indeed, the Bernie Bros never shut up, so we don't need to read Orwell anymore anyways.
3) No, doesn't matter, you're never going to convince anybody of anything, either you shoot them or you don't, all these matters are decided by force of arms in the end, to include by Orwell himself, which was of course his most redeeming characteristic. You can't talk Hitler out of it, you can't talk Stalin out of it neither, you can talk until you're blue in the face, to no particular utility, so again, God bless the hydrogen bomb.
The person you are indebted to, for not having to work at the coal face, nor fight against tyrants on the battlefield, is not in fact George Orwell, but rather Edward Teller.
Humility too! I know zero real life people who could make some of the statements you make, and trust me, I look.
