CS 313 - Get me a glass of Water

[apeman]

I should note that, if I believe this "centralization" argument I am putting forth (not saying I do, I don't, but things ain't so black and white no more), then Nukedog has been justified in calling me a lolberg this whole time.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Our current system is woefully out of date, and dogmatic. There's no way of saving it, IMO, unless we can branch out into a more advanced coalition government system, with a number of parties and various points of view available. Run-off voting is also desperately needed.

-but waimminit! There's some dumb shit about racism and taxes that we can blather on and get re-elected!!!

I wasn't going there. The answers to our difficult problems -- solutions that, no matter the form, will require some pain -- will not be enacted by splintering authority into many separate groups. That is the problem. that is the core of my concern, and the reason for this internal crisis I am feeling.

If you want a king, then you can keep it. I have no interest in living by the whim of some anointed fool.

There's no 'splintering of authority' implied by having more than 2 parties. if anything, it would disrupt the Elite class, and make it harder for them to gain total dominance.

[apeman]

If you want a king, then you can keep it. I have no interest in living by the whim of some anointed fool.

Conversation with you can be boring because you need to reduce everything to the simplest soundbite possible, then mock it.

I clearly did not state that I wanted a King, I said I don't endorse this, and said let's play with the idea that our system cannot solve ANY of our actual problems, it can only kick the can down the road, apply shitty band-aids, due to authority not being centralized/special interests/etc

[SuburbanFarmer]

If you want a king, then you can keep it. I have no interest in living by the whim of some anointed fool.

Conversation with you can be boring because you need to reduce everything to the simplest soundbite possible, then mock it.

I clearly did not state that I wanted a King, I said I don't endorse this, and said let's play with the idea that our system cannot solve ANY of our actual problems, it can only kick the can down the road, apply shitty band-aids, due to authority not being centralized/special interests/etc

...which I fully agreed with, and was then dismissed because my alternative idea is not preferable to you. So... you don't want to add more parties or runoff voting, but you also don't want to centralize into a monarchy. Well, right now, we have an uber-powerful Executive that's just shy of it, so I'm not sure what else you think can be centralized, in order to make it more effective...

I do like to boil things down, and speak to the end of the logic train, rather than hand-hold all the way down the path, because I (foolishly) expect forum mates to think through their points. At least I keep my soundbyte on topic, instead of straw-manning people to death, like DSL.

[apeman]

We don't have an uber powerful executive -- exec is uber powerful is certain realms, but the exec is highly limited in other areas.

Original Q:

You know my general politics, so this is a Q is uncomfortable to me but is making reevaluate (as I always am):

What if our 3-branch, diluted power, special-interest fueled system CANNOT SOLVE ANY REAL PROBLEM WE FACE?

What if your current system's ceiling is maintaining this slow decline, kicking the can down the road on every issue, until one day we can't?

The solution to the concern -- 3-branch, diluted power, special-interest fueled system -- is not alleviated by "a more advanced coalition government system" unless you believe in unicorns.

[Fife]

Government is not the solution to any "real problem we face."

Government is the cause of the real problems we face.

[Speaker to Animals]

Government is not the solution to any "real problem we face."

Government is the cause of the real problems we face.

[SuburbanFarmer]

We don't have an uber powerful executive -- exec is uber powerful is certain realms, but the exec is highly limited in other areas.

Original Q:

You know my general politics, so this is a Q is uncomfortable to me but is making reevaluate (as I always am):

What if our 3-branch, diluted power, special-interest fueled system CANNOT SOLVE ANY REAL PROBLEM WE FACE?

What if your current system's ceiling is maintaining this slow decline, kicking the can down the road on every issue, until one day we can't?

The solution to the concern -- 3-branch, diluted power, special-interest fueled system -- is not alleviated by "a more advanced coalition government system" unless you believe in unicorns.

Ok, if you're a special interest - Apeman Inc. - do you think you'll find it easier to influence a single corrupt official, or 10?

[apeman]

Ok, if you're a special interest - Apeman Inc. - do you think you'll find it easier to influence a single corrupt official, or 10?

there can be NO credible doubt that someone free from needing to get elected every few years is far more inoculated from special interests.

Did Louis the Sun King need special interests as much as today's candidates? No, he WAS the special interest everyone else needed.

I suspect you think for approximately 1 second before each post.

[katarn]

If you want a king, then you can keep it. I have no interest in living by the whim of some anointed fool.

Conversation with you can be boring because you need to reduce everything to the simplest soundbite possible, then mock it.

I clearly did not state that I wanted a King, I said I don't endorse this, and said let's play with the idea that our system cannot solve ANY of our actual problems, it can only kick the can down the road, apply shitty band-aids, due to authority not being centralized/special interests/etc

...which I fully agreed with, and was then dismissed because my alternative idea is not preferable to you. So... you don't want to add more parties or runoff voting, but you also don't want to centralize into a monarchy. Well, right now, we have an uber-powerful Executive that's just shy of it, so I'm not sure what else you think can be centralized, in order to make it more effective...

I do like to boil things down, and speak to the end of the logic train, rather than hand-hold all the way down the path, because I (foolishly) expect forum mates to think through their points. At least I keep my soundbyte on topic, instead of straw-manning people to death, like DSL.

DSL is definitely the worst straw-manner, but you do it too. Pretty much everyone here has at one point. The weak man is also strong in DSL and a few others.