HH 59 : The Destroyer of Worlds

[Speaker to Animals]

Israel probably will be the preeminent regional power when Trump gets done arming them to the teeth. But right now, that status belongs to Turkey.

[Smitty-48]

Israel probably will be the preeminent regional power when Trump gets done arming them to the teeth. But right now, that status belongs to Turkey.

Nonsense, Israel is the only nuclear power in the region, those B61's at Incirlik are not Turkish, Isreal doesn't need PAL codes to unlock its hydrogen bombs, and it has the full spectrum of delivery capabilities, inluding preemptive first and survivable second strike.

[Speaker to Animals]

I mean.. if you want to invoke nuclear warfare, so is Iran. Both Israel and Iran have the potential to annihilate their regional enemies (and each other).

Talking conventional military, Turkey (for now) outmatches Israel, but I doubt for much longer.

[Smitty-48]

Iran doesn't have the bomb, and even if/when Iran gets the bomb, they have a long way to go to catch up to Israel, Isreal has hydrogen bombs, with nuclear ballistic missiles, and nuclear cruise missile launching submarines.

The closest nuclear power is Pakistan, but even then, Israel has more bombs than Pakistan, and better delivery systems.

[Smitty-48]

Talking conventional military, Turkey (for now) outmatches Israel, but I doubt for much longer.

Disagree, Turkey has a larger population and more territorial depth, but the IDF is superior to the Turkish military, fully mobilized the IDF is bigger than Turkey's standing army, and the IDF is better trained, better equipped, and more heavily armed, it's actually Turkey which is trying to catch up with Israel.

After Israel, I would rank Egypt as number two, then Iran, and then Turkey.

Bear in mind, it's more than just nuclear weapons which makes the IDF technologically superior, Israel has the vastly superior infrastructure, in terms of intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, electronic warfare, cyber warfare, command, control, communications, coordination, logistics, training, development etc

Israel is the only full spectrum military power in the region, whereas the likes of Turkey and Egypt rely heavily on the United States.

In many areas, Turkey and Egypt are actually "free riders", Israel is the only regional military power with all the technology and capabilities of a superpower, under its own sovereign control.

Israel's only real weaknesses are a lack of mass and depth, but that's where the comprehensive nuclear deterent comes into play.

[adwinistrator]

Talking conventional military, Turkey (for now) outmatches Israel, but I doubt for much longer.

Disagree, Turkey has a larger population and more territorial depth, but the IDF is superior to the Turkish military, fully mobilized the IDF is bigger than Turkey's standing army, and the IDF is better trained, better equipped, and more heavily armed, it's actually Turkey which is trying to catch up with Israel.

After Israel, I would rank Egypt as number two, then Iran, and then Turkey.

Bear in mind, it's more than just nuclear weapons which makes the IDF technologically superior, Israel has the vastly superior infrastructure, in terms of intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, electronic warfare, cyber warfare, command, control, communications, coordination, logistics, training, development etc

Israel is the only full spectrum military power in the region, whereas the likes of Turkey and Egypt rely heavily on the United States.

In many areas, Turkey and Egypt are actually "free riders", Israel is the only regional military power with all the technology and capabilities of a superpower, under its own sovereign control.

Israel's only real weaknesses are a lack of mass and depth, but that's where the comprehensive nuclear deterent comes into play.

Turkey's really been padding their numbers, eh?

In 2012 Turkey's liberal newspaper Taraf shed light on problems haunting the Turkish military force in its article entitled "Turkey's Army is Mighty In Numbers, Not Weapons." While the Turkish army comprised more than 700,000 personnel, about 470,000 of its members are not career soldiers, Taraf explained, as quoted by Al-Monitor. The media outlet revealed that Turkey spends "most of its budget on personnel expenses" of about 40,000 officers, 100,000 non-commissioned officers, 65,000 gendarme/army specialist soldiers, 8,000 reserve officers and 470,000 soldiers doing their compulsory military service. Furthermore, the army also employs 50,000 civilian workers, it stated. As a result, "the army is trying to make up for its technology deficit with unlimited manpower," the media outlet noted, adding that "basing Turkey's defense concept on the human element instead of technology creates weaknesses in intelligence, reconnaissance and surveillance."

[Smitty-48]

Turkey could draft a lot of conscripts, but could not employ them effectively, it's not World War One, huge numbers of troops is not only not the arm of decision, it would in fact simply become an unwieldy burden in the context of the contemporary warfighting paradigm, vastly more mouths to feed, to no particular gain.

Moreover, Turkey's greatest threat is from within, huge numbers of conscripts is a threat to Turkey's own government, not the Israelis

[Martin Hash]

Sparta saved Greece, Athens didn't.

If the EU, China, or Russia want to be the hegemon, they better be willing to take on the Superpower.

[Smitty-48]

America is not Spartan, Spartan countries are like; Israel, Egypt, Iran, Greece, Finland, Norway, Singapore, North and South Korea.

Americans are only "Spartans" within the confines of their adolescent power fantasies; in movies, on television, and while they play video games.

Americans are practically the antithesis of Spartans; the vast majority refuse to serve in the military, those who do serve in the military expect to be pampered, and in any war, America can be defeated simply because it quails in the face of attrition, moreover, Americans ceaselessly blather on, unlike the famously laconic Spartans, Americans never shut up; non stop running off at the mouth about how tough they are, to cover for the fact that they are actually insecure, fearful, and wholly lacking in resolve.

That's not Spartan.

[DrYouth]

America is not Spartan, Spartan countries are like; Israel, Egypt, Iran, Greece, Finland, Norway, Singapore, North and South Korea.

Americans are only "Spartans" within the confines of their adolescent power fantasies; in movies, on television, and while they play video games.

Americans are practically the antithesis of Spartans; the vast majority refuse to serve in the military, those who do serve in the military expect to be pampered, and in any war, America can be defeated simply because it quails in the face of attrition, moreover, Americans ceaselessly blather on, unlike the famously laconic Spartans, Americans never shut up; non stop running off at the mouth about how tough they are, to cover for the fact that they are actually insecure, fearful, and wholly lacking in resolve.

That's not Spartan.