CS314 - Unhealthy Numbers

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Fife
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Re: CS314 - Unhealthy Numbers

Post by Fife » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:47 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:Eventually somebody relatively powerful is going to get a giant spotlight and perform the equivalent of Marc Antony's speech and the opposition to universal health care will get crushed in the minds of the demos. It's only a matter of time.

"Jessica was a wonderful little child, yet so-and-so showed us how it would have been 'slavery' to save her from her preventable illness when her mother couldn't pay.."

Losing side.
LOL, 1972 is on the line.

The Marxists learned the power of the check-printing machine well before when you suggest. When I was 5 years old I was being told by my parents and grandparents how wonderful it was that they could cart my snotty-nosed ass into the "clinic" to have my meds administered.

Guess what? Those fucking pencil pushers didn't keep me from getting polio.

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Martin Hash
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Re: CS314 - Unhealthy Numbers

Post by Martin Hash » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:52 pm

If you're like most Americans, you got your free, socialized polio vaccination in your public (socialized) school.
Shamedia, Shamdemic, Shamucation, Shamlection, Shamconomy & Shamate Change

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Fife
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Re: CS314 - Unhealthy Numbers

Post by Fife » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:58 pm

Martin Hash wrote:If you're like most Americans, you got your free, socialized polio vaccination in your public (socialized) school.
Oh, for all of my actual inoculations, those were administered by a grandmother of one my classmates. She may as well have been assisting in cutting out a calf's nuts. She did have a rather strong relationship with our county superintendent, though, now that I think about it.





Spoiler alert: I'm taking a position that I got my inoculations not because of my Germanic "public" education, but in spite of it. Lucky me.
Last edited by Fife on Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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C-Mag
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Re: CS314 - Unhealthy Numbers

Post by C-Mag » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:11 pm

Martin Hash wrote:If you're like most Americans, you got your free, socialized polio vaccination in your public (socialized) school.
Hash, is your position every medical need should be covered by socialized medicine?


You can beat me for not being very involved with this subject and remembering peoples positions.
PLATA O PLOMO


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Martin Hash
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Re: CS314 - Unhealthy Numbers

Post by Martin Hash » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:35 pm

I kinda like what Capp proposed today: a free public option anybody can choose (Medicare probably), along with traditional insurance-based for those who want/afford it.
Shamedia, Shamdemic, Shamucation, Shamlection, Shamconomy & Shamate Change

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ssu
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Re: CS314 - Unhealthy Numbers

Post by ssu » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:02 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:When looking at the motives for why people take sides, aside from the philosophical stands, it comes down to this: We have the greatest health care in the world as long as you have the money to pay for it, but if you lack the money to pay for it, you end up receiving the worst health care of the developed world.
Well said!

But also note that there's a difference between the rich and the poor in health in any country. Not perhaps so huge as in the US, but still.
Speaker to Animals wrote:If we seek to provide more health care to those who cannot afford it, the quality of health care enjoyed by those with lots of money will erode.

So we have reached a point where people who can afford good health care don't want universal coverage because they know it will diminish their quality of health care, and those who cannot afford good health care want universal health care because they know it will improve their quality of health care.

The fact that people with plenty of money make reasonable moral arguments for universal health care of some kind ought to concern those who want none of universal health care. This final outcome of this problem will come down to how many people can be convinced one way or the other, and it's difficult to to overcome a moral argument with a philosophical argument in the context of changing minds.

Eventually somebody relatively powerful is going to get a giant spotlight and perform the equivalent of Marc Antony's speech and the opposition to universal health care will get crushed in the minds of the demos. It's only a matter of time.
True, because you simply cannot "reform" the present system as the stakeholders that profit from your expensive system are in control of Washington. You need that Mark Anthony.

Or basically you need a big scandal where the stakeholders like big pharma are involved and then you beat the shit out of them and their lobbyists.

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Fife
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Re: CS314 - Unhealthy Numbers

Post by Fife » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:57 am

I think this piece captures the essence of why CS314 sucks so bad. Dan, and a few of luminaries around here, have a total mis-read on what actual Americans demand, IMNSHO.

On the bright side, the GOP is about to be blown down just as bad as the DNC.

The knives will be out, and soon, for Ryan. Where will the Emperor be on the stage?

Ryancare Will Destroy The Republican Majority

The Republican leadership thinks that their half-measures and clever branding are a sign of moderation and prudence but they are courting disaster. They apparently learned nothing about the fury of scorned voters during the last election.

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: CS314 - Unhealthy Numbers

Post by Speaker to Animals » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:44 am

Ryancare is pretty awful. What is your alternative?

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Fife
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Re: CS314 - Unhealthy Numbers

Post by Fife » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:49 am

Step One: full repeal, full stop.

As for step Two, I found some merit in RandyCare, as we discussed before. viewtopic.php?f=63&t=1605&p=23717

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: CS314 - Unhealthy Numbers

Post by Speaker to Animals » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:52 am

Fife wrote:Step One: full repeal, full stop.

As for step Two, I found some merit in RandyCare, as we discussed before. viewtopic.php?f=63&t=1605&p=23717

Repeal and replacement have to be the same bill.

Specifically, what do you want to do about all the people who are losing health care, can't afford it, etc?