What To Do About Unions?

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DBTrek
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Re: What To Do About Unions?

Post by DBTrek » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:25 pm

I think the day of the Union is done.

Think about the rise of Unions in the USA, and then think about where labor was on the supply/demand graph.

When the Industrial Revolution was in full swing, and we were transitioning from an agricultural economy to an industrial one, labor actually meant something. Farmer Joe coming to the big city had many options, right? Does he work the railroad, does he work the mine, does he work the factory floor, does he work moving textiles? It was a time when several emergent industries *needed* laborers, and a lot of our laborers were still living out in the open country, right? So demand for labor exceeded available supply.

Hence a Union actually had something it could leverage.

Fast forward to USA 2017 where 95 million people are not in the workforce. Suddenly that labor supply/demand sure isn't looking so great for the workers. The idea that 200 Walmart workers are going to band together and demand anything is laughable - because surely there are another 200 bodies in that pool of 95 million idle folks who can replace the malcontents, right?

Simple math.
The day of the Union is dead.
At least until we have a massive job boom.
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"

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Martin Hash
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Re: What To Do About Unions?

Post by Martin Hash » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:49 pm

My point is that corporate structures are artificial, not something handed down from god, and they are exploited, like any construct is exploited. For a PRIVATE company, I don't really care because of the liberty issue: a private individual started a company, and that person is not looking for random partners forced on him/her by unions. PUBLIC companies, however, have a lot of the same exploitative techniques, the powerlessness of minor shareholders for example, the fact that much of the equity is in the form of Mutual Funds or Retirement Funds, with a level of abstraction between the people & their money. In that case, in the case of PUBLICALLY held companies, Germany-style union representation is preferable.

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Re: What To Do About Unions?

Post by brewster » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:57 am

Was reading a union related article this morning and figured this was as good a place as any to post. It was about hotel workers being replaced by technology, and the unions fighting back and threatening strikes. To me, this is where private sector unions go off the rails. It's fine to protect worker safety, workplace conditions & quality of life, and wages. But when they try and protect the actual jobs they go too far. When job is obsolete, it's obsolete. No one is wishing for manual telephone switchboard operators, even though that employed many thousands in the early part of the 20th century.

Public sector needs not be discussed. My kid's HS pays it's janitors in the 97th percentile of the state of NJ, but they're eliminating after school activities and sports to meet budget cuts. They were already in like the state's 15th %.
We are only accustomed to dealing with like twenty online personas at a time so when we only have about ten people some people have to be strawmanned in order to advance our same relative go nowhere nonsense positions. -TheReal_ND

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Martin Hash
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Re: What To Do About Unions?

Post by Martin Hash » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:14 am

With Social Networking, who needs unions? My goodness, anybody can be targeted at anytime for anything; think SCOTUS nominees...

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Re: What To Do About Unions?

Post by brewster » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:33 am

Not seeing "social media"=unions for protecting workers from the inevitable race to the bottom that free labor markets are inclined to.
We are only accustomed to dealing with like twenty online personas at a time so when we only have about ten people some people have to be strawmanned in order to advance our same relative go nowhere nonsense positions. -TheReal_ND

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: What To Do About Unions?

Post by Speaker to Animals » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:35 am

The problem for unions is that Trump is doing what they failed to do. They have to account for this and come to Jesus about it. They are not acting in their members' best interests when they constantly have democrats balls down their throats.

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Martin Hash
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Re: What To Do About Unions?

Post by Martin Hash » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:45 am

brewster wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:33 am
Not seeing "social media"=unions for protecting workers from the inevitable race to the bottom that free labor markets are inclined to.
???

How many stories do you hear about business' abusing their workers? Not many because, Jesus Christ, the Facebook Warriors will bring that place to its knees in a matter of days.

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Re: What To Do About Unions?

Post by brewster » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:54 am

Martin Hash wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:45 am
brewster wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:33 am
Not seeing "social media"=unions for protecting workers from the inevitable race to the bottom that free labor markets are inclined to.
???

How many stories do you hear about business' abusing their workers? Not many because, Jesus Christ, the Facebook Warriors will bring that place to its knees in a matter of days.
There's a big difference between the kind of egregious stuff that makes SM headlines and the kind of grinding shit quality of life that can make work hell. It took many years for the last minute scheduling of retail workers that made any kind of life planning impossible to make it to the news, and it's still rampant though a few of the biggest players have backed down on it.
We are only accustomed to dealing with like twenty online personas at a time so when we only have about ten people some people have to be strawmanned in order to advance our same relative go nowhere nonsense positions. -TheReal_ND

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Martin Hash
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Re: What To Do About Unions?

Post by Martin Hash » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:59 pm

brewster wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:54 am
Martin Hash wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:45 am
brewster wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:33 am
Not seeing "social media"=unions for protecting workers from the inevitable race to the bottom that free labor markets are inclined to.
???

How many stories do you hear about business' abusing their workers? Not many because, Jesus Christ, the Facebook Warriors will bring that place to its knees in a matter of days.
There's a big difference between the kind of egregious stuff that makes SM headlines and the kind of grinding shit quality of life that can make work hell. It took many years for the last minute scheduling of retail workers that made any kind of life planning impossible to make it to the news, and it's still rampant though a few of the biggest players have backed down on it.
No need for dues-paying unions. SM can solve this. Why can't a union form without dues?

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DBTrek
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Re: What To Do About Unions?

Post by DBTrek » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:00 pm

Social media can’t prevent incompetent workers from being fired.
Unions can.
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"