Republics

[DBTrek]

So ... the ever expensive expansion of government isn't driving us into debt - it's rich people.

The government costs us a nearly quarter of the national GDP:

Current U.S. government spending is $4.407 trillion. That's the federal budget for fiscal year 2019 (October 1, 2018, to September 30, 2019). It's 21 percent of gross domestic product.
https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s- ... ng-3305763

. . . but it's the 1%ers (half of whom sold a home in any given year and therefore are making a 1-time appearance as a 1%er) that are driving us toward insolvency.

Interesting.

[Speaker to Animals]

... and as I prepare to drop north of 30k on taxes (just income taxes, not sales, gas, property, all the other little taxes we all pay throughout the year) I’m going to have to disagree that we’re “nowhere close to diminishing returns”.

Maybe the returns aren’t diminishing for you, but they definitely are for me.

As for the “debt” argument - you could liquidate the “rich” entirely and only fund the US government through June.
Maybe taxes aren’t the problem.

If you want to bitch about taxes, fine, but don't pretend like we would see an increase in tax revenue if we reduce your taxes. We are nowhere near that point.

In any case, you are going to get fucked in the ass no matter what. You are in the middle class. They will NEVER give you a tax reduction that is not temporary and coupled with taking away various exemptions and credits.

There are only so many rich households to tax the shit out of. A small tax increase on them is not necessarily going to yield the same revenue as a small tax increase on the middle class, which vastly outnumber them and, collectively, have plenty of income to tax. It sucks. But that's how it is until everybody puts down these ridiculous neocon "economics" books and stops voting for fucking democrats.

In a way, both sides are right. We do need to increase taxes, especially on the top brackets, namely by drastically increasing capital gains taxes and probably instituting transaction taxes on various instruments. We also need to gut the bureaucracy and reduce spending.

In the 90s, we actually had that between Clinton and Gingrich. We were set to have eliminated the national debt by 2012 if we just kept course with that, but we all decided to vote for Bush and fuck it, now we are even deeper in the fucking hole. Remember those tax cuts under Bush? Yeah, for you those tax cuts sunset a while ago. The capital gains reductions didn't, though. Imagine that. Now Trump did the same fucking thing.

That's how you lose to democrats, by the way.

[DBTrek]

Again, completely liquidating “the rich” and their various corporations along with them (Walmart, Exxon, Amazon, GE, Apple, etc) wouldn’t fund the US government for a single fiscal year.

People who still believe raising taxes on “rich” or anyone else is the solution to anything haven’t looked at the numbers. Climb aboard the class envy Marxist train if you want, but that line has never run to a prosperous or enviable destination for anyone, rich or poor.

[Fife]

If you want to bitch about taxes, fine, but don't pretend like we would see an increase in tax revenue if we reduce your taxes. We are nowhere near that point.

In any case, you are going to get fucked in the ass no matter what. You are in the middle class. They will NEVER give you a tax reduction that is not temporary and coupled with taking away various exemptions and credits.

There are only so many rich households to tax the shit out of. A small tax increase on them is not necessarily going to yield the same revenue as a small tax increase on the middle class, which vastly outnumber them and, collectively, have plenty of income to tax. It sucks. But that's how it is until everybody puts down these ridiculous neocon "economics" books and stops voting for fucking democrats.

In a way, both sides are right. We do need to increase taxes, especially on the top brackets, namely by drastically increasing capital gains taxes and probably instituting transaction taxes on various instruments. We also need to gut the bureaucracy and reduce spending.

In the 90s, we actually had that between Clinton and Gingrich. We were set to have eliminated the national debt by 2012 if we just kept course with that, but we all decided to vote for Bush and fuck it, now we are even deeper in the fucking hole. Remember those tax cuts under Bush? Yeah, for you those tax cuts sunset a while ago. The capital gains reductions didn't, though. Imagine that. Now Trump did the same fucking thing.

That's how you lose to democrats, by the way.

I'm curious; how are you certain that we are "nowhere near" the top of the Laffer Curve? What evidence do you base that on?

Anyway, the revenue side is just a distraction; a show about nothing.

How is voting for Rs--or Ds--working out for the real problem we face; especially given the omnibus ass-reaming we took about a week ago?

The GOP congress and Trump signed that shit so fast it made my head swim.

[Martin Hash]

The Laffer Curve is complete bullshit:

https://newrepublic.com/article/145331/ ... ican-party

[Martin Hash]

How long do you Libertarian economists think this trajectory can continue? Indefinitely? If not then what? Revolution? Socialism? Monarchy?

[Speaker to Animals]

Again, completely liquidating “the rich” and their various corporations along with them (Walmart, Exxon, Amazon, GE, Apple, etc) wouldn’t fund the US government for a single fiscal year.

People who still believe raising taxes on “rich” or anyone else is the solution to anything haven’t looked at the numbers. Climb aboard the class envy Marxist train if you want, but that line has never run to a prosperous or enviable destination for anyone, rich or poor.

Never said it would. In fact, I pointed out exactly why they tax the shit out of the middle class: it's the way to get the most revenue without a fuss. The wealthy are smaller and number, generally smarter, well-organized, and they control the campaign finances.. There is not as much to gain from them and it's going to be difficult to get the money from them anyway unless you are self-funded. But, as we have seen, self-funded means you get one of them and he doesn't give a shit about correcting this situation, apparently, since he just did the exact same thing (temporary tax reductions on the middle class coupled with removal of credits and exemptions, and then a permanent reduction on taxes for the wealthy).

At this point, there are only two ways to get out of this hole: (1) increase taxes on both the middle class and the wealthy while gutting the bureaucracy and drastically constraining spending; (2) print a shit ton of fiat money to pay off the debt and just eat the hyperinflation and the geopolitical consequences of such an act.

[Speaker to Animals]

If you want to bitch about taxes, fine, but don't pretend like we would see an increase in tax revenue if we reduce your taxes. We are nowhere near that point.

In any case, you are going to get fucked in the ass no matter what. You are in the middle class. They will NEVER give you a tax reduction that is not temporary and coupled with taking away various exemptions and credits.

There are only so many rich households to tax the shit out of. A small tax increase on them is not necessarily going to yield the same revenue as a small tax increase on the middle class, which vastly outnumber them and, collectively, have plenty of income to tax. It sucks. But that's how it is until everybody puts down these ridiculous neocon "economics" books and stops voting for fucking democrats.

In a way, both sides are right. We do need to increase taxes, especially on the top brackets, namely by drastically increasing capital gains taxes and probably instituting transaction taxes on various instruments. We also need to gut the bureaucracy and reduce spending.

In the 90s, we actually had that between Clinton and Gingrich. We were set to have eliminated the national debt by 2012 if we just kept course with that, but we all decided to vote for Bush and fuck it, now we are even deeper in the fucking hole. Remember those tax cuts under Bush? Yeah, for you those tax cuts sunset a while ago. The capital gains reductions didn't, though. Imagine that. Now Trump did the same fucking thing.

That's how you lose to democrats, by the way.

I'm curious; how are you certain that we are "nowhere near" the top of the Laffer Curve? What evidence do you base that on?

Anyway, the revenue side is just a distraction; a show about nothing.

How is voting for Rs--or Ds--working out for the real problem we face; especially given the omnibus ass-reaming we took about a week ago?

The GOP congress and Trump signed that shit so fast it made my head swim.

Evidence: we increased taxes just a few years ago under Obama and tax revenues increased.



Then during tax cuts, you see the revenue drop. Hmm..

[DBTrek]

How long do you Libertarian economists think this trajectory can continue? Indefinitely? If not then what? Revolution? Socialism? Monarchy?

How long can government expansion continue?
How long can running the government eat a nearly a quarter of our GDP?
How many of our citizens can jump on the government entitlement train before that locomotive won’t go forward anymore?

People being rich isn’t running America into a ditch.

Maybe attack the problem from the demand side instead of the supply side.

[Speaker to Animals]

Attack both sides of the problem or it doesn't get solved.