Liberty vs. Socialism

[Martin Hash]

R U telling me you have enough stuff that I would consider it hoarding? Dude, I didn't know... Could you lend me a fiver?

[Fife]

R U telling me you have enough stuff that I would consider it hoarding? Dude, I didn't know... Could you lend me a fiver?

There was an implied gag in there, fer sure.

The "'Hoarding' is a myth part" was no jokey, however.

[Speaker to Animals]

Home run.

[DrYouth]

Home run.

Huh?

You can say what Peterson says here about any passionately held ideology (that it claims to hold some moral truth)... all social ideologies propose a just way to be a society... and claim superiority over competing ideologies.... that is the definition of an ideology.

This is a rant... all passion and goodness on Peterson's part... dismissing this other ideology's claim to truth which he refers to as "Marxism"... when those others claim they are not in fact Marxists (and they are probably right in defining their terms, although the details of the difference of terms is not covered in this slip)... he comes up with some bogus counterfactual scenario involving Stalin having them shot...

This isn't a home run.... it's a joke.... but StA is eating it up because of its passion and righteousness.

[Speaker to Animals]

Lots of ideologies had passionate proponents and controlled entire governments. Only one category of ideology murdered hundreds of millions of people..

[Martin Hash]

It gets tiresome; socialists insisting everyone is just like them but don't know it yet; insisting there is no "just" ideology but theirs; insisting they are virtuous & good, and everyone should be like them. But they refuse to refer to themselves as socialists! Well, what the fuck do you want us Libertyists to call you: virtuous & goodists?

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

It gets tiresome; socialists insisting everyone is just like them but don't know it yet; insisting there is no "just" ideology but theirs; insisting they are virtuous & good, and everyone should be like them. But they refuse to refer to themselves as socialists! Well, what the fuck do you want us Libertyists to call you: virtuous & goodists?

If I get to choose, can I be a Libertist Socialtarian?

[DrYouth]

It gets tiresome; socialists insisting everyone is just like them but don't know it yet; insisting there is no "just" ideology but theirs; insisting they are virtuous & good, and everyone should be like them. But they refuse to refer to themselves as socialists! Well, what the fuck do you want us Libertyists to call you: virtuous & goodists?

First of all am I not a socialist in that I don't advocate the government owning or controlling the means of production. That is simply a boondoggle. Centrally planned economies are a fail.... this has been proven over and over.
So lets get that clear.

What Hanarchy and I have been talking about is that socially minded policies can include worker empowerment in all sorts of ways. Some people refer to these as socialist policies... but that's getting pretty loosey goosey with terminology. I would say these are socially minded policies and can be part of any governance model from nationalist, to moderate conservative, to liberal, to "progressive".

So I am certainly NOT saying there is no just ideology but socialism. In fact I see capital S socialism as a doomed ideology.

What I AM saying is that every social ideology sees itself as representing a just set of ideas on governing a society and sees the others as less just or less likely to be successful. Be it Conservatism (whatever that is - status quo - preserving hierarchies as they exist), nationalism, libertarianism, liberalism, fascism etc. So each can declare the other as putting itself forward as "the most virtuous".

[Speaker to Animals]

[*]

It gets tiresome; socialists insisting everyone is just like them but don't know it yet; insisting there is no "just" ideology but theirs; insisting they are virtuous & good, and everyone should be like them. But they refuse to refer to themselves as socialists! Well, what the fuck do you want us Libertyists to call you: virtuous & goodists?

If I get to choose, can I be a Libertist Socialtarian?

You sound just like a dirt bag in the Judean Peoples Front.

[Martin Hash]

It gets tiresome; socialists insisting everyone is just like them but don't know it yet; insisting there is no "just" ideology but theirs; insisting they are virtuous & good, and everyone should be like them. But they refuse to refer to themselves as socialists! Well, what the fuck do you want us Libertyists to call you: virtuous & goodists?

First of all am I not a socialist in that I don't advocate the government owning or controlling the means of production. That is simply a boondoggle. Centrally planned economies are a fail.... this has been proven over and over.
So lets get that clear.

What Hanarchy and I have been talking about is that socially minded policies can include worker empowerment in all sorts of ways. Some people refer to these as socialist policies... but that's getting pretty loosey goosey with terminology. I would say these are socially minded policies and can be part of any governance model from nationalist, to moderate conservative, to liberal, to "progressive".

So I am certainly NOT saying there is no just ideology but socialism. In fact I see capital S socialism as a doomed ideology.

What I AM saying is that every social ideology sees itself as representing a just set of ideas on governing a society and sees the others as less just or less likely to be successful. Be it Conservatism (whatever that is - status quo - preserving hierarchies as they exist), nationalism, libertarianism, liberalism, fascism etc. So each can declare the other as putting itself forward as "the most virtuous".

So WHAT R U CALLED?!

p.s. As a Liberty person, I'd don't agree with any of your ideology, whatever the fuck it's called.