Abortion

[Martin Hash]

Of course, there will be war. Aren't you always talking about it? Liberty is virtually impossible to keep without violence. I expect you to be on the other side.

I don't think there will be war over this. The culture is changing in a lot of ways, some of the better, most for the worst. In this case, American culture is steadily moving towards pro-life.

I don't think abortion will ever be completely outlawed, but it certainly won't be used as a form of birth control in the future. Most Americans already oppose abortion in most cases. Lots of people support abortion when the mother's life is in danger. You still see some people make the rape exception mistake, but that mistake is growing fewer in frequency these days too, it seems.

I disagree. It's never going back. After this current crowd of Antis passes on, the argument will become fringe. Making Morning After contraception more accessible, like in the Check-out line at the supermarket, would go a long way to solving everything but the mystical aspects.

[Speaker to Animals]

You better figure out how to turn this trend around. It's moving pretty fast towards pro-life. When the boomers die off, it's pretty much over.

[SuburbanFarmer]

You better figure out how to turn this trend around. It's moving pretty fast towards pro-life. When the boomers die off, it's pretty much over.

I doubt that you could be more wrong about that.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Of course, there will be war. Aren't you always talking about it? Liberty is virtually impossible to keep without violence. I expect you to be on the other side.

I don't think there will be war over this. The culture is changing in a lot of ways, some of the better, most for the worst. In this case, American culture is steadily moving towards pro-life.

I don't think abortion will ever be completely outlawed, but it certainly won't be used as a form of birth control in the future. Most Americans already oppose abortion in most cases. Lots of people support abortion when the mother's life is in danger. You still see some people make the rape exception mistake, but that mistake is growing fewer in frequency these days too, it seems.

I disagree. It's never going back. After this current crowd of Antis passes on, the argument will become fringe. Making Morning After contraception more accessible, like in the Check-out line at the supermarket, would go a long way to solving everything but the mystical aspects.

A viable solution.

[Speaker to Animals]

You better figure out how to turn this trend around. It's moving pretty fast towards pro-life. When the boomers die off, it's pretty much over.

I doubt that you could be more wrong about that.

Then go look at the pew poll trend for yourself..

[Martin Hash]

Link

[Fife]

Human life is pretty fucking cheap among "intellectuals."

Some of you smarties might want to study up on your Gorsuch.

[Martin Hash]

Human life is pretty fucking cheap among "intellectuals."

Some of you smarties might want to study up on your Gorsuch.

Us RICH intellectuals, you mean? BTW, how many people died in traffic accidents yesterday? What do you mean, you don't know?! How many people died of AIDS in Africa yesterday? Again, you have no fucking idea, yet you'll stick your head up my daughter's cunt and tell me it's moral. Fuck you.

[Fife]

Human life is pretty fucking cheap among "intellectuals."

Some of you smarties might want to study up on your Gorsuch.

Us RICH intellectuals, you mean? BTW, how many people died in traffic accidents yesterday? What do you mean, you don't know?! How many people died of AIDS in Africa yesterday? Again, you have no fucking idea, yet you'll stick your head up my daughter's cunt and tell me it's moral. Fuck you.

Well, that's certainly a firm rebuke, Martin. Whenever a debate interlocutor invokes "fuck you," "my daughter's cunt," "I'm RICH, BITCH," AND self-identifies as an "intellectual" in a single response, things must be going pretty well.

At any rate, whether you want to study up on Gorsuch, or anything other than being a RICH intellectual for that matter, some of our friends here might like to read some stuff highly relevant to the current discussion and where SCOTUS might be heading.

Here's some stuff from Justice Repo Man's PhD advisor at Oxford.

Member me telling you all about him? I member. viewtopic.php?f=63&t=1608&p=41661&hilit=finnis#p31150



https://prezi.com/cglgdyopb7xi/john-fin ... re-ethics/

The statement "Any entity which, remaining the same individual, will develop into a paradigmatic instance of a substantial kind already is an instance of that kind. The one-cell human organism originating with the substantial change which occurs upon the penetration of a human ovum by a human sperm typically develops, as one and the same individual, into a paradigmatic instance of the rational bodily person, the human person; in every such case, therefore, it is already an actual instance of the human person."

Summary

Essentially, what Finnis means is that babies will eventually grow into a human person and for that reason should be considered an actual instance of that human person.

Conclusion 1

P1 : If a person is capable of thought and speech then he / she should be regarded and treated as a human being

P2: The unborn baby is a person and is capable of thought and speech

Therefore,

C: The unborn should be regarded and treated as human beings.

Conclusions 2 + 3

P1: If you are a human being, then you have the right to live.

Therefore,

C1: The unborn have the right to live

P2: Every attempt to harm an innocent human person violates the principle of non-maleficence and is always morally unjust.

P3: Killing an innocent person is a form of harming him/her.

Therefore,

C2: Killing an innocent person is morally unjust.

Final Conclusion

P1: Killing an innocent person is morally unjust

P2: If you are an unborn child, then you are an innocent person

Therefore,

C: Killing the unborn is morally unjust.

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2010/10/1849/

The thing about moral status is, if you believe in morality at all, that it is not a matter of choice or grant or convention, but of recognition. If you hear anyone talk about conferring or granting moral status, you know they are deeply confused about what morality and moral status are. The very idea of human rights and status is of someone who matters whether we like it or not, and even when no one is thinking about them; and matters, whether we like it or not, as at bottom an equal, because like us in nature as a substantial kind of being.

[snip]

About the moral status of the phrase “the fetus,” I will just say this. As used in the conference program and website, which are not medical contexts, it is offensive, dehumanizing, prejudicial, manipulative. Used in this context, exclusively and in preference to the alternatives, it is an F-word, to go with the J-word, and other such words we know of, which have or had an acceptable meaning in a proper context but became in wider use the symbol of subjection to the prejudices and preferences of the more powerful. It’s not a fair word, and it does not suggest an open heart. Those of you who have an open mind or a fair heart may wish to listen to every speaker at this conference, and see whether they are willing to speak, at least sometimes, of the unborn child or unborn baby, and to do so without scare quotes or irony.

See also, http://scholarship.law.nd.edu/law_facul ... rship/340/

Wake up and face reality, Death Cultists. Justice Repo Man knows that you are full of commie shit.

EDIT: error previously on the link to the Finnis syllogism. Fixed now.

[Martin Hash]

Natural Rights are mysticism.

“All Rights issue from the barrel of a gun.” - me