Abortion

[Martin Hash]

Kind of frustrating watching that Crowder video. Not least because they keep using the term "life" as in, "when does life begin?" Life? I wash my hands of it, (literally, as bacteria and microbes will attest.) A more meaningful distinction between a blob of meaty cells and an individual having subjective experiences would be the ability to desire to live. Such an ability (one reasons) would require a brain that is in a certain stage of development, such a stage would require a certain amount of synaptic activity. What exactly that stage is, can be reasoned over, but a zygote and many things after a zygote can probably be safely determined to not be it. We can admit we don't know when sentience begins while also being able to say we can be reasonably certain when there is not sentience, for example, the penny I just found on the ground. So if Crowder is as rational as he seems to be then I think one could get him to agree that some abortions are alright given the correct parameters. And once they lose that battle, it's just a slow march to the planned parenthood from there.

Nicely done.

The "sanctity of life" argument is a mystical one. Your "sentience" concept is somewhat scientific, but having been around newborns, their desire to live, if there is one, is only instinctual. In contrast, I use a liberty argument for abortion, which is ideological. No wonder we all come to different conclusions?

[Xenophon]

A fetal heart beat begins around week 4 of development. 20 weeks is the latest an abortion can happen, I think?

I cannot for the life of me understand how people can justify the snuffing out of a defenseless child with a heartbeat.

[Martin Hash]

A fetal heart beat begins around week 4 of development. 20 weeks is the latest an abortion can happen, I think?

I cannot for the life of me understand how people can justify the snuffing out of a defenseless child with a heartbeat.

You're applying your altruistic yearnings onto everyone. You have a "value" or a "moral" that you think we all share? Dial back your feelings, and consider your insignificance in the universe, then extrapolate that to insects and bacteria. I don't like to kill spiders, not even when they're in my house, but I make a judgment considering the spider's worth to my own convenience, and get the toilet paper.

[Speaker to Animals]

That's what Chairman Mao concluded.

[Martin Hash]

That's what Chairman Mao concluded.

It was Hitler. Maybe Mao too? I don't know? Genghis Khan? Mother Teresa? I get mixed up, what name do you use to belittle a valid argument when you have none of your own?

[Speaker to Animals]

That's what Chairman Mao concluded.

It was Hitler. Maybe Mao too? I don't know? Genghis Khan? Mother Teresa? I get mixed up, what name do you use to belittle a valid argument when you have none of your own?

You're valid argument was that human beings are just animals and that we should have no more compunction about taking a human life than swatting a bug. It's not really an argument, but a premise. Once you accept that premise -- I don't think even you do -- then argument doesn't really matter any longer anyway.

We disagree upon whether the lives killed in abortions are human persons. I don't think either side ever had a great argument for why a fetus in the first trimester is a human person, but the argument that we ought to err on the side of caution and couple human personhood with human life is a strong heuristic that I am pretty sure you apply in other contexts throughout your life.

[Martin Hash]

That's what Chairman Mao concluded.

It was Hitler. Maybe Mao too? I don't know? Genghis Khan? Mother Teresa? I get mixed up, what name do you use to belittle a valid argument when you have none of your own?

You're valid argument was that human beings are just animals and that we should have no more compunction about taking a human life than swatting a bug. It's not really an argument, but a premise. Once you accept that premise -- I don't think even you do -- then argument doesn't really matter any longer anyway.

To you maybe? That's what's so great about liberty: you can have your own set of values & morals, wallow in them, make proclamations, self-harm, and it doesn't affect me.

[Speaker to Animals]

It was Hitler. Maybe Mao too? I don't know? Genghis Khan? Mother Teresa? I get mixed up, what name do you use to belittle a valid argument when you have none of your own?

You're valid argument was that human beings are just animals and that we should have no more compunction about taking a human life than swatting a bug. It's not really an argument, but a premise. Once you accept that premise -- I don't think even you do -- then argument doesn't really matter any longer anyway.

To you maybe? That's what's so great about liberty: you can have your own set of values & morals, wallow in them, make proclamations, self-harm, and it doesn't affect me.

Your definition of human personhood has a pretty big effect on liberty, don't you think? If I see black people as human persons, and some other guy sees them as subhuman farm chattel, then we can both talk about liberties all day and the impasse will not get solved. Indeed, that particular impasse was only solved on the battlefield.

[Martin Hash]

Of course, there will be war. Aren't you always talking about it? Liberty is virtually impossible to keep without violence. I expect you to be on the other side.

[Speaker to Animals]

Of course, there will be war. Aren't you always talking about it? Liberty is virtually impossible to keep without violence. I expect you to be on the other side.

I don't think there will be war over this. The culture is changing in a lot of ways, some of the better, most for the worst. In this case, American culture is steadily moving towards pro-life.

I don't think abortion will ever be completely outlawed, but it certainly won't be used as a form of birth control in the future. Most Americans already oppose abortion in most cases. Lots of people support abortion when the mother's life is in danger. You still see some people make the rape exception mistake, but that mistake is growing fewer in frequency these days too, it seems.

We saw a similar trend against slavery, but slavery had an enormous economic interest behind it. To free slaves was essentially to "steal" most of the capital goods out of the Southland. Ending abortion only ends a corrupt and racist abortion industry. Boo hoo. Nobody is going to fight a war over that. Most of the pro-aborts are pussies anyway. They literally wear pussy hats. Bring it.