Minimum Wage Sucks Because

[Zlaxer]

Back to how this is related to the UBI hooey: When we subsidize consumption, and penalize production (or innovations if you prefer), guess which way the respective needles will go.

Except that AI is a game changing event that will break the model you are basing your position on. UBI would foster tons of consumption for sure - but the machines would be the slaves.....and the machines, assuming they're not strong AIs, don't care about being slaves.....

If automation comes to full fruition - the questions becomes one of resource distribution and population management. UBI, IMHO, preserves the most independence for the individual in such a system - the state doesn't get to decide how you spend your resources....its just decides what the minimum you get is. The problem is, how to keep the drive to innovate with taxation would be severe to support UBI. But if people tend to naturally create things when they have leisure time, perhaps such a system could work. Problem is - how to mitigate the problems of centralized government....

We need a new term for AI that does not imply a consciousness.

As for the problem of centralized government - use AI for it. Corruption is, and has always been, the biggest problem with government of any kind.

Its called weak and strong AI there Grumps...

[Zlaxer]

I don't like the idea of people being utterly dependent on the gov't for survival. That would make us a nation of black people.

Something about casual racism - what was it

[heydaralon]

AI is the scapegoat of the entitled and lazy.

"I'd totally get a job man, but like, all the Boomers won't retire, and like, employers don't pay enough, y'know, and like . . . don't even get me started on the coming AI apocalypse, maaaaannnnn....."

Once again, I'm not necessarily supporting UBI. Do you not think that most jobs will get automated? Do you think this is just luddite hysteria, or are you of the opinion that even if most jobs get automated, the losers of the new economy should not be taken care of? If that is the case, how long will it take for the unwashed masses to lynch the libertarians? I'm not suggesting any policy, as I'm not an expert on automation or economics, I'm just trying to nail down your position here.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Except that AI is a game changing event that will break the model you are basing your position on. UBI would foster tons of consumption for sure - but the machines would be the slaves.....and the machines, assuming they're not strong AIs, don't care about being slaves.....

If automation comes to full fruition - the questions becomes one of resource distribution and population management. UBI, IMHO, preserves the most independence for the individual in such a system - the state doesn't get to decide how you spend your resources....its just decides what the minimum you get is. The problem is, how to keep the drive to innovate with taxation would be severe to support UBI. But if people tend to naturally create things when they have leisure time, perhaps such a system could work. Problem is - how to mitigate the problems of centralized government....

We need a new term for AI that does not imply a consciousness.

As for the problem of centralized government - use AI for it. Corruption is, and has always been, the biggest problem with government of any kind.

Its called weak and strong AI there Grumps...

Yeah, but that just implies some kind of spectrum between machine and self-aware being. Doesn't work for communication, really...

[Zlaxer]

We need a new term for AI that does not imply a consciousness.

As for the problem of centralized government - use AI for it. Corruption is, and has always been, the biggest problem with government of any kind.

Its called weak and strong AI there Grumps...

Yeah, but that just implies some kind of spectrum between machine and self-aware being. Doesn't work for communication, really...

No really - those are the terms of art in CS.

[heydaralon]

I don't like the idea of people being utterly dependent on the gov't for survival. That would make us a nation of black people.

Something about casual racism - what was it

I watched Moonlight and Selma, and was fully supportive of the film Hidden Figures, even overlooking its historical inaccuracies. I've earned the right to make a lighthearted racist joke on the internet once in awhile.

[Martin Hash]

Just to be clear, I'm not a UBI proponent: I'm a believer in Workfare with a Living Wage bottom subsidized by Income taxes. I'm calling that "Basic Income." If you work, it's a Right, if you don't, it's charity.

WAYMENT. Are you calling it "charity" now?

If you mean actual, voluntary, charity, then we might be onto something. Seems though that you are just giving a different name to the same IRL theft (when you call it a "right").

Right v Charity is super important because it determines where the obligation lies.

If you work, but your salary is subsidized by government to some Living Wage, nobody's going to tell you how to spend your money.
If you don't work, you just sit around collecting free money, then you can be sure folks will tell you how to spend their money.

p.s. Lots of things qualify as "work," but sitting in a folding chair on your stoop complaining to your neighbors about how bad the litter is, doesn't.

[DBTrek]

p.s. Lots of things qualify as "work," but sitting in a folding chair on your stoop complaining to your neighbors about how bad the litter is, doesn't.

NOT SO FAST, Hash, ol' chap!

[heydaralon]

We need a new term for AI that does not imply a consciousness.

As for the problem of centralized government - use AI for it. Corruption is, and has always been, the biggest problem with government of any kind.

Its called weak and strong AI there Grumps...

Yeah, but that just implies some kind of spectrum between machine and self-aware being. Doesn't work for communication, really...

I think its possible that "strong AI" is a mirage, and that consciousness might not ever be replicated via circuits and lines of code. We don't know how the human mind works, and it seems like we are a ways off from creating something like HAL or the terminator. Keep in mind, people have been saying that fully conscious AI is right around the corner decades before either of us were born GCF. I think the key element to having a moral AI is making sure their souls are saved. This can be done via baptism after they are compiled, although the water might short circuit them.

[DBTrek]

Layabout USA ditching atheism just this once to get down on their knees and pray "Please God, PLEASE, Let strong AI justify my serial unemployment and whining!"