Dark Matter is Ether

[SuburbanFarmer]

If E=MC2 (there's some current debate on the issue) then photons have some infinitesimal mass. There's nothing about their speed that prevents this except in the equations that humans made up. And we know that mass affects light...

Nobody is disputing the equation. But you’re ignoring the ‘C2’ portion of it, to suit your idea.

Energy != Photons, though they are a form of energy. You can convert energy into mass, which is what happened during the Big Bang, or you can convert mass into energy with a similar amount of energy.

Those conditions are not likely to repeat, and do not denote some property of particular kinds of mass and energy.

[Martin Hash]

If E=MC2 (there's some current debate on the issue) then photons have some infinitesimal mass. There's nothing about their speed that prevents this except in the equations that humans made up. And we know that mass affects light...

Nobody is disputing the equation. But you’re ignoring the ‘C2’ portion of it, to suit your idea.

Energy != Photons, though they are a form of energy. You can convert energy into mass, which is what happened during the Big Bang, or you can convert mass into energy with a similar amount of energy.

Those conditions are not likely to repeat, and do not denote some property of particular kinds of mass and energy.

If photons are energy then their mass canNOT equal 0. I don't care if you square the speed-of-light or not.

[Speaker to Animals]

No, the mass really equals zero.

[Speaker to Animals]

It's right there in the equation.

Mass is relative now, right?

Classical mechanics: p = mv

But since the mass is relative, we have to say something like F = m(rel)*v

What is velocity?

That would be C^2 in the conservation of matter and energy equation:

So.. E = m(rel)*C^2

But at rest, the momentum of an electromagnetic wave is zero.

So.. 0 = m(rest) * C

The speed of light is not zero. It's always measured the same. So m(rest) has to be zero..

[Speaker to Animals]

The thing is.. dark matter really bugs me. I don't like sloppy solutions to patch up the standard model. Undetectable matter just irks me.

I know that if you allow variation in the speed of light, all this problem goes away. Seems like a more parsimonious solution that we can actually test somehow (maybe with the Voyager probes?).

[SuburbanFarmer]

The thing is.. dark matter really bugs me. I don't like sloppy solutions to patch up the standard model. Undetectable matter just irks me.

I know that if you allow variation in the speed of light, all this problem goes away. Seems like a more parsimonious solution that we can actually test somehow (maybe with the Voyager probes?).

We already know that light speed can vary. It can be slowed by dense materials, or heavy gas, but then it resumes its speed upon leaving that material behind.

Light has its own, unique properties that are impossible for mass to duplicate.

[Speaker to Animals]

The thing is.. dark matter really bugs me. I don't like sloppy solutions to patch up the standard model. Undetectable matter just irks me.

I know that if you allow variation in the speed of light, all this problem goes away. Seems like a more parsimonious solution that we can actually test somehow (maybe with the Voyager probes?).

We already know that light speed can vary. It can be slowed by dense materials, or heavy gas, but then it resumes its speed upon leaving that material behind.

Light has its own, unique properties that are impossible for mass to duplicate.

No, I am saying we should test to see if it attenuates over distance. Maybe attenuate is not the right word. I mean.. the constant is not constant, but will appear to drop off over a distance. There are a few such hypotheses to that effect. They get rid of the need for most of the dark matter.

Dark energy is another problem.

[SuburbanFarmer]

The thing is.. dark matter really bugs me. I don't like sloppy solutions to patch up the standard model. Undetectable matter just irks me.

I know that if you allow variation in the speed of light, all this problem goes away. Seems like a more parsimonious solution that we can actually test somehow (maybe with the Voyager probes?).

We already know that light speed can vary. It can be slowed by dense materials, or heavy gas, but then it resumes its speed upon leaving that material behind.

Light has its own, unique properties that are impossible for mass to duplicate.

No, I am saying we should test to see if it attenuates over distance. Maybe attenuate is not the right word. I mean.. the constant is not constant, but will appear to drop off over a distance. There are a few such hypotheses to that effect. They get rid of the need for most of the dark matter.

Dark energy is another problem.

Well, we have incoming signal at all times from the stars. And the more distant, the greater their redshift - longer wavelengths. Astronomers have taken this to mean that all points of the universe are expanding. I think it’s just a property of light over huge distances.

[Speaker to Animals]

We already know that light speed can vary. It can be slowed by dense materials, or heavy gas, but then it resumes its speed upon leaving that material behind.

Light has its own, unique properties that are impossible for mass to duplicate.

No, I am saying we should test to see if it attenuates over distance. Maybe attenuate is not the right word. I mean.. the constant is not constant, but will appear to drop off over a distance. There are a few such hypotheses to that effect. They get rid of the need for most of the dark matter.

Dark energy is another problem.

Well, we have incoming signal at all times from the stars. And the more distant, the greater their redshift - longer wavelengths. Astronomers have taken this to mean that all points of the universe are expanding. I think it’s just a property of light over huge distances.

Wouldn't work. We measure the distance to those stars based in part on the constancy of the speed of light. You'd need something you really do know the distance to by some other means (e.g. Voyager 1 and 2).

It's a long shot, and the difference would be really tiny at such a close distance, but I think it's worth investigating somehow. If it is true, then we can fix the standard model without all this dark matter. There are a few physicists who have worked out the math for this. But I am not sure it's easily detectable between here and the edge of the solar system.

Here is some more about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_speed_of_light


Another interesting one is a varying gravitational constant.

[DBTrek]

Do Catholic photons have mass?